arachne-digest Friday, December 27 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1996
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 11:25:05 +0100 From: flox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: What's important for Arachne's future? Hi! > So here's a question for everyone: What new features are most > important for Arachne's future development? I would say: Porting it to DJGPP! btw: There is a Linux version of Arachne. So, i think it will compile with GCC => Porting to DJGPP shouldn't be that problem. And...if it is avaiable for DJGPP...then a HTML-Library (which renders the pages and save it into a bitmap f.e. using Allegro) would be very good, so that other programm could use it (f.e. a graphical help-viewer could be made for FreeDOS). But i think, this won't be the future, because of the license :-( just dreaming... :-) bye, flox - -- Florian Xaver http://www.drdos.org unofficial dr-dos site http://www.flox.at.tf/ dos page - ogg/mp3 page for dos kurt ostbahn & die kombo page ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 15:24:18 +00 From: "Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: What's important for Arachne's future? On Thu, 26 Dec 2002 05:36:50 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote: > So here's a question for everyone: What new features are most > important for Arachne's future development? IMHO the most important issue for Arachne's future is to make (or keep) her attractive to new users and that is not an easy task ;-( New computer users don't even know the word DOS... Old computer users laugh at you... DOS is very obsolete to them Just a handfull of experienced users are using DOS... not even on a regular base. The only feature my friends like of Arachne is the fact that I never caught me a virus, some worm or any other nasty internet/e-mail animal. "How do you do this?" they ask "You don't even use a virus scanner..." A very serious problem, becomming more serious every day, is the use of Win XP that makes it impossible to use DOS anymore. So would it be possible to have two or more operating systems installed on one computer? And if possible... how to do this? And very important: how to explain this to a windozer!!!!! ************* WORD documents For word-documents I have used several viewers and best of all I like 'view.exe'. But there is a problem with all those DOS viewers... people are sending (more and more lately) word documents with images included. Those images are lost with DOS-viewers... you don't even know they were there ( an indication may be the large file-size ). ************** PDF Viewing PDF with Arachne is possible using GohstScript, GS. However GS does not convert all types (versions) of PDF and is not easy to install... nearly impossible to install for non experienced users. I often needed the help of this list to get GS running (thanks for your help Joerg)... installing the latest GS was not a succes :-( ************** For e-mail I always use Arachne and with 1.71UE we are going to a ver- sion that is easy to handle and free of the last remaining bugs. For web-browsing I always first try Arachne... about 50% succes, decreasing ;-(( Most common problems: java script and bloat features like 'flash'. (I don't know what 'flash' is...) For internet banking and things like that I have to use windows based software supplied by the bank. CU all... Bastiaan X-mas day: the only one day of the year without agressive language of George W. Bush ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:18:47 -0500 (EST) From: Steve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: What's important for Arachne's future? On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, flox wrote: > > So here's a question for everyone: What new features are most > > important for Arachne's future development? > > I would say: Porting it to DJGPP! And I would say: Porting it to gcc !!! ;-) > btw: There is a Linux version of Arachne. So, i think it will compile > with GCC => Porting to DJGPP shouldn't be that problem. The source tree has apparently only been ported to gcc as far as 1.66. After that, nothing. - -- Steve Ackman http://twoloonscoffee.com (Need green beans?) http://twovoyagers.com (glass, linux & other stuff) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:59:44 -0700 From: "G J Feig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: New Features (was " What's important for Arachne's future?") On Thu, 26 Dec 2002, "Sam Ewalt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bob, I couldn't agree with you more. I don't use Windows myself-- > although I may start any day now because of Javascript and secure > transactions on the web. > I'd prefer to just keep using DOS. If Glenn and his helpers can > cram a little more functionality into Arachne we'll all be happy > campers. > So here's a question for everyone: What new features are most > important for Arachne's future development? 1. Javascript capability - NOT "built-in" to Arachne, but handled the same way .JPGs, etc are handled. I mention this first because lots of so-called "secure sites" REALLY depend upon JS to get you into the SSL part. 2. SSL capability - again, NOT "built-in" to Arachne, but handled the same way as .JPGs, etc. 3. Personally, I do NOT want lots more "on-line" capabilities, such as "streaming-video" (aka "screaming-vidiotico") and such. These things can be handled by downloading a file, and shelling out to use an Arachne add-on. This keeps basic Arachne compatible/useable with the "legacy" systems (even if "legacy" means whinge-doze something, the SYSTEM may not have all the latest/greatest hardware, or the original hardware may have burnt=out, been pulled, etc.) 4. hmmmm...I'll think of more, I'm sure.....<g g g g> ......gregy - -- This mail was sent by a user of Arachne - The Ultimate Internet Client ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 23:58:07 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: config variable 'Editor' Hi list, I have just read the files of Glenn's exeditgm.zip packet which offer a quite consistent implementation of external editor on the base of .dgi scripts. One disadvantage of that solution, however, is that those who prefer an external editor may not like to call it only indirectly from Arachne's internal editor pages (textedit.ah, sendmail.ah etc.) but even directly *instead* of the editor pages. Replacing the internal editor with an editor of your choice is the main idea of the arachne.cfg variable 'Editor'. It can be changed at the bottom of the opt_misc.ah page. The Editor variable can point to any external DOS program you want. Whenever you press the hotkey F4 this program starts instead of textedit.ah. This way may be far more practical for those who do a lot HTML editing or cutnpaste in Arachne. But the drawback is that Arachne's internal editor is not accessible while 'Editor' is defined. And it can be embarrassing if you always need to return to opt_misc.ah when you just want to swap the editors. Actually there are several reasons why you may need more than one editor: * some texts contain 8bit characters that have to be translated from iso8859 to DOS char sets and vice versa -> either stick to Arachne's internal editor or use a batch file with translation routines * sometimes you need to cut and paste columns of text (eg. when printing broadly layouted web pages) -> Pedit is best for that * sometimes you need to load more than one file at a time - -> this is the job of MS-DOS 7.10 Editor * if you edit HTML tags you will be glad about additional tools - -> then I may choose an editor with good macro support I think here is still opportunity for some improvement: 1. Terminology: IIRC the external editor topic is not covered in Arachne's documentation. The discussion on the list and the different add-ons and customized .ah files can be quite confusing to newbies. We should aggree on different terms for Arachne's built-in editor, the external program called by F4 directly and the dgi scripts accessible from textedit.ah. May be it would be possible to write a Howto (araxedit.txt) that contains all aspects of use of external editors. In the past, documents of that kind used to be written by Clarence. 2. Dual opening: It is not bad to have one or more buttons on textedit.ah in order to access a particular editor. But I think it is inadequate to use for all kinds of editing the same hot key F4. In the past we discussed several workarounds for switching between editors. I still use Clarence's swapedit.ook with hotkey SHIFT+F4. Swapedit.ook exchanges the default textedit.ah and a textedit.alt - the latter calls the xedit.dgi script with an HTML REFRESH tag. I think workarounds of that kinds are too complicated for beginners and it would be better to include the solution into core.exe. All that is necessary is to link a new hotkey (eg. ALT+F4) to the external program defined by the 'Editor' variable. Eg. Norton commander or Midnight commander offer separate file associations for view, edit, open etc that can be accessed by different keys. In a similar way in Arachne F4 could call the 'Edit' function, and ALT+F4 the 'X(ternal)Edit' or 'Y(our)Edit' function. Is this a new feature for A.171;UE02? Regards Christof Lange _______________________________________________ Christof Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Prokopova 4, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic phone: (+420) 222 78 06 73 / 222 78 20 02 http://www.volny.cz/cce.zizkov ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:49:43 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ook, eek and dgi Hi list, there are several ways of writing scripts to help Arachne do her work faster and more comfortably. Writing these scripts does not require knowledge in C programming, so anybody can do it. On the other hand you need quite a bit experience with Arachne and the support of the mailing list, because something seems to be rather magical. There are two main categories of these small utilities: 1. The OOKs and EEKs: They are pure DOS batch files. Their file extension allows them to be started from Arachne. They always work. But you cannot pass parameters to them. 2. The DGIs: They are defined by a cryptic language in mime.cfg. They may contain DOS commands and external programs. You can pass parameters from Arachne to them and their output can be returned to Arachne. They generally work if Glenn writes them. Writing DGIs can be quite frustrating. But you can do more things with them. And basically any OOK can be replaced by a DGI. Am I right? Here is an implementation: A further difference between OOKs and DGIs is that for running OOKs Arachne always needs to leave the graphic mode and shell out to DOS. The screen gets dark for a short moment while the script is running - even if the program has no screen output at all. With the DGIs it depends. If you begin the line in MIME.CFG with the @ symbol Arachne shells out the same way. If you leave out this symbol and the script does not require too much memory then the DOS commands can run invisibly, as Arachne does not leave the graphic mode. I successfully replaced the ugly \oops\swapedit.ook @echo off copy \system\gui\textedit.ah edit.tmp >nul copy \system\gui\textedit.alt \system\gui\textedit.ah >nul copy edit.tmp \system\gui\textedit.alt >nul copy nul edit.tmp >nul with this line in mime.cfg file/swapedit.dgi |call swapedit.bat and a common batch file @echo off copy \system\gui\textedit.ah edit.tmp >nul copy \system\gui\textedit.alt \system\gui\textedit.ah >nul copy edit.tmp \system\gui\textedit.alt >nul copy nul edit.tmp >nul The result is that the program is running invisibly and I do not have to wait until the current page reloads. Is there any reason for the prevailing of .OOK scripts uder Arachne? Regards, Christof Lange _______________________________________________ Christof Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Prokopova 4, 130 00 Praha 3, Czech Republic phone: (+420) 222 78 06 73 / 222 78 20 02 http://www.volny.cz/cce.zizkov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 16:01:25 +0000 From: "Thomas Tabler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: concerning Arachne development Dear friends and listers: More APM's would be nice, possibly include SMS, and little problems called "bugs". Yes, I think Glenn is doing great, and he can work on whatever thing he would wish to. This from the "peanut gallery". Once again, thanks for all the help from Glenn, Caverge, Pete Geminga, and others. Happy new year to you all, as well! yours, Thomas - -- This mail was written by user of Arachne, the Ultimate Internet Client - -- Arachne V1.69, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 20:13:17 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ook, eek and dgi This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ----__JNP_000_057e.19a3.1384 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Christof, There is an old American song ... (called One Eyed, One Horned, Flying Purple People Eater"). The chorus sounds something like ... ... ook, eek, ook, ah, ah ... Maybe I'll rewrite it as the Arachne theme song. On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:49:43 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > <snip> > these scripts do not require > knowledge in C programming, so anybody can do it. On the other hand > you need quite a bit experience with Arachne and the support of > the mailing list, because something seems to be rather magical. > This is VERY true. > There are two main categories of these small utilities: > > 1. The OOKs and EEKs: They are pure DOS batch files. Their file > extension allows them to be started from Arachne. They always > work. But you cannot pass parameters to them. > Is it possible to pass variables through the CFG files by storing text to an unused variable, then extracting the variable from within the batch file? Not exactly pretty, but would that be technically possible? > 2. The DGIs: They are defined by a cryptic language in mime.cfg. > They > may contain DOS commands and external programs. You can pass > parameters from Arachne to them and their output can be returned to > Arachne. They generally work if Glenn writes them. > > Writing DGIs can be quite frustrating. But you can do more things > with them. And basically any OOK can be replaced by a DGI. Am I > right? > How about this. I found a database that runs from the DOS command line. It's called MiniBSE (I think). I found it (the file is minibse1.zip) at www.simtel.net/pub/pd/42986.html. The text says that it is a "Command line database works from DOS prompt", but I haven't tried it yet. At any rate, if I can't get CGIs worked up to interface with my DOS database, how about using DGIs and MiniBSE, run from within the HTML page. Since you're already on a roll with the DGIs, do you want to give it a try? Anybody else? > Here is an implementation: <snip> > Thanks for your contributions, Christof. > > Is there any reason for the prevailing of .OOK scripts under Arachne? > No good reason, other than it's an easy way to start. Thanks, again, for the scripts and the ideas. Bob - - - ----__JNP_000_057e.19a3.1384 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3Dcontent-type content=3Dtext/html;charset=3DUS-ASCII> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bottomMargin=3D0 leftMargin=3D3 topMargin=3D0 rightMargin=3D3> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Hi Christof,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is an old American song ...</DIV> <DIV>(called One Eyed, One Horned, Flying Purple People Eater"). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The chorus sounds something like ...</DIV> <DIV>... ook, eek, ook, ah, ah ...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe I'll rewrite it as the Arachne theme song.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 00:49:43 <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A>=20 writes:<BR>> <snip></DIV> <DIV>> these scripts do not require<BR>> knowledge in C programming, = so=20 anybody can do it. On the other hand<BR>> you need quite a bit = experience=20 with Arachne and the support of<BR>> the mailing list, because something= =20 seems to be rather magical.<BR>> <BR></DIV> <DIV>This is VERY true.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>> There are two main categories of these small utilities:<BR>>=20 <BR>> 1. The OOKs and EEKs: They are pure DOS batch files. Their file<BR= >>=20 extension allows them to be started from Arachne. They always<BR>> work.= But=20 you cannot pass parameters to them.<BR>> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is it possible to pass variables through the CFG files by storing text= to=20 an unused variable, then extracting the variable from within the batch file= ? Not=20 exactly pretty, but would that be technically possible?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>> 2. The DGIs: They are defined by a cryptic language in mime.= cfg.=20 <BR>> They<BR>> may contain DOS commands and external programs. You = can=20 pass<BR>> parameters from Arachne to them and their output can be = returned=20 to<BR>> Arachne. They generally work if Glenn writes them.<BR>> <BR>&= gt;=20 Writing DGIs can be quite frustrating. But you can do more things<BR>> = with=20 them. And basically any OOK can be replaced by a DGI. Am I <BR>>=20 right?<BR>> <BR></DIV> <DIV>How about this. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I found a database that runs from the DOS command line. It's called = MiniBSE=20 (I think). I found it (the file is minibse1.zip) at = <A=20 href=3D"http://www.simtel.net/pub/pd/42986.html";>www.simtel.net/pub/pd/= 42986.html</A>. =20 The text says that it is a "Command line database works from DOS prompt", = but I=20 haven't tried it yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At any rate, if I can't get CGIs worked up to interface with my DOS=20 database, how about using DGIs and MiniBSE, run from within the HTML page.<= /DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since you're already on a roll with the DGIs, do you want to give it a= try?=20 Anybody else?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>> Here is an implementation: <snip><BR>> <BR></DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your contributions, Christof.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>> <BR>> Is there any reason for the prevailing of .OOK scripts=20 under Arachne?<BR>> <BR></DIV> <DIV>No good reason, other than it's an easy way to start.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks, again, for the scripts and the ideas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bob</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-</DIV></BODY></HTML> - ----__JNP_000_057e.19a3.1384-- ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 08:50:35 -0500 From: Roger Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: ook, eek and dgi Bob, What do you want the database program to do? It seems to be an important, even critical, part of your planned use of Arachne as an HTML viewer. Roger Turk Tucson, Arizona Bob Dohse wrote: . > I found a database that runs from the DOS command line. It's called . > MiniBSE (I think). I found it (the file is minibse1.zip) at . > www.simtel.net/pub/pd/42986.html. The text says that it is a "Command . > line database works from DOS prompt", but I haven't tried it yet. ------------------------------ End of arachne-digest V1 #1996 ******************************
