arachne-digest Sunday, December 29 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1999
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 09:46:44 -0800 From: "Ray Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: arachne-digest V1 #1997 Hi Cristian, all, > From: Cristian Burneci <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > ... > Java needs lots of stuff that DOS can't implement. Speaking of the future of Arachne, and the growing difficulty we are having ignoring Java, this monstrous thought entered my head a while ago, and I can't make it go away, so I may as well tell ya: What about "Arachne for Windows" ? BURN! Yes, I know Brothers and Sisters, I *must* burn for it, but first let me make my case: Arachne is, and will remain the world's one and only really viable DOS based browser. As such, it is and will remain the only way to browse the web from an older computer. I would not want to change that, but consider: We already have DOS and LINUX versions of Arachne, so why not one for Windows too? Such a version would be able to implement Java, and to do a whole bunch of other things that the DOS versions perform with difficulty, or not at all. I'm sure I'm not the only person who uses Arachne, not because I have an older computer, but because I love the way she works--I love her "look and feel". Even when I'm running W98, I still use Arachne when ever I possibly can; I have an icon for her on my desktop. So why not create a fully competent Windoze version of Arachne that can compete head to head with IEX, Netscape, Opera, etc. ... and maybe even blow these screen-cluttering bloatware monsters out of the water? Arachne has saved many a 486 from the trash, and will continue to do so, but I say the time has come to stop slinking about in the shadows hiding from the wrath of Bill, and to launch an assault right into the very heart of the Evil Empire by fighting them on their own turf. Would it not be surpassing fine to watch the monster roar? I met a traveler from a rainy land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone stand In the forest. Near them on the duff, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown and Geekey look, and sneer of endless wealth Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed; And on the pedestal appears this guff: `My name is William Henry Gates III, king of kings: Use my software, ye mighty, and despair!' Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and alone, The wet and gloomy woods stretch far away. (apologies to) P.B. Shelley Ray Andrews, Vancouver, Canada - -- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:20:17 -0500 From: "Glenn McCorkle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: problem with resend.dgi in Arachne 1.69 On Sat, 28 Dec 2002 23:28:57 +0000, Thomas Tabler wrote: > Dear Glenn or List: > Does anyone have a clue how come my resend.dgi won't > work in Arachne 1.69 with Insight 3.69? Maybe there's an > update to Insight or not, but it's got me baffled. This is > with no ramdrive {arachnetemp set to c:\temp} loaded and > only one hard drive present after the Redhat install. > I have 54kb upper dos memory with 132 total. Free Xswap > is 1582. Some details please. Exactly what happens when you hit the "edit/resend" button while viewing an .SNT or the "modify" button while viewing a .TBS ??? BTW, http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/ara171ue01.htm <g> - -- Glenn http://arachne.cz/ http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 15:37:52 -0500 From: "Glenn McCorkle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: General unsubscribing On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 12:36:56 +0200, Or Botton wrote: > Hiya people. As you probebly noticed, i'm barely sending here anymore. I'm still > using Arachne & DOS heavily, but the volume of mail I get from the list is > simply huge and I cant handle it, especialy since i'm not as intrested in most > of the topics discussed... i'd like to drop, or etleast switch to digest. > Tried to search the help section, but there's no "digest" function listed? If > there is, how do I turn it on? Do not attempt to turn it on at this time. If you do.... You will then begin getting BOTH the digest AND the individual messages. After Michael fixes the unsubscribe function of his majordomo..... unsubscribe arachne subscribe arachne-digest end - -- Glenn http://arachne.cz/ http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 06:48:21 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Two or more OS's - --------------Boundary-00=_L4FWQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some operating systems run quite happily from the same partition. Corel Linux and BeOS can, for example, be installed in a Windows (DOS) director= y. OS/2 and DOS can live happily in the same partition.=0D =0D To boot from your other drive is fairly simple: Make the one that is a master now into a slave, and vice versa. Now your D: drive will be your c= : drive. The first time you may have to boot from a floppy and run "fdisk /= mbr to write a boot sector to that HD.=0D =0D If your D: drive is on the same hard disk, but in a separate partition, r= un fdisk, then select "Set active partition" (or soemthing like that, depend= ing which fdisk you are using).=0D =0D Windows 95, 98 and ME are really only glorified menu systems running on t= op of a quite conventional DOS. Event though that DOS has been somewhat simplified compared with earlier DOS-only versions, both Windows 95 and 9= 8 can bee booted to DOS only, without running Windows. If a DOS application does not run in that environment, then that application is not compatible with that particular version of DOS, and not the other way round. But I found that most applications run fine in DOS versions higher than 6.2, if Windows is not loaded on top of them.=0D =0D Windows NT (2000, XP) is an off-shoot of OS/2 (or the other way round, I forgot...), and is not DOS-based. It uses a built-in DOS emulator. In OS/= 2 that emulator was clearly visible, and it was possible to switch between = it and the native OS/2 (NT) systems at the command level. Microsoft removed that facility in NT, and the native OS cannot be accessed any more, only = a rather inferior emulated DOS, which handles many system calls completely different than any other DOS. hence problems with the running of many programs.=0D =0D Hope this helps.=0D =0D Dr. Ron=0D =0D - -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=0D Date: Sunday, 29 December 2002 05:56:06 AM=0D To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=0D Subject: Re: Two or more OS's=0D =0D Welcome Carol,=0D =0D Of course there must be a separated partition for each operating system=0D or two or more harddisks...=0D but my problem is in booting I suppose.=0D On HD #2 =3D d:\ there is a DOS 5.1 and on C:\ there is Win95 with DOS=0D build into it.=0D Booting can be done to C:\ only and than the DOS in Win95 is booted.=0D This DOS-version causes some bugs in Arachne so I would rather like to=0D boot from D:\. But how?=0D =0D Futhermore newer Win versions like XP do not support DOS so double=0D booting with DOS GUI is not possible because there is no DOS in WinXP.=0D So... how would anyone with a factory installed WinXP or something like=0D that run Arachne?=0D =0D Anyone...?=0D =0D CU, Bastiaan=0D =0D =0D =0D On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:52:07 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:=0D =0D > On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 11:10:31 +0000, Carol Moon wrote:=0D =0D >> Bastiaan asked if it is possible to have two or more operating systems= =0D >> on one computer. Yes, with System Commander or Partition Magic or ther= e=0D >> is hardware which allows you to switch between hard drives. I have a=0D >> device called "NickLock" and two hardrives in my PII. W98 on one HD,=0D >> DR-DOS and Linux on the other. There is also one called "Trios" with=0D >> which you can select one of three hard drives.=0D =0D > Welcome to the list, Carol.=0D =0D > I wonder if there is a cheap (free would be excellent) way to do=0D > this.=0D =0D > Sam Ewalt=0D > Croswell, Michigan, USA=0D > -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/=0D =0D =2E - --------------Boundary-00=_L4FWQL80000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-885= 9-1"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dis= o-8859-1"><html> <head> <meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"IncrediMail 1.0">=0D <!--IncrdiXMLRemarkStart> <IncrdiX-Info> <X-FID>FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000</X-FID> <X-FVER></X-FVER> <X-CNT>;</X-CNT> </IncrdiX-Info> <IncrdiXMLRemarkEnd--> =0A</head> <BODY background=3D"" bgColor=3D#ffffff style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px= 0px; SCROLLBAR-FACE-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 1px; SCROLL= BAR-HIGHLIGHT-COLOR: #083084; SCROLLBAR-SHADOW-COLOR: #868686; SCROLLBAR-= 3DLIGHT-COLOR: #adaead; SCROLLBAR-ARROW-COLOR: #002c7b; FONT-FAMILY: Aria= l; SCROLLBAR-DARKSHADOW-COLOR: #545252" scroll=3D"yes" ORGYPOS=3D"0" X-FV= ER=3D"2.0"> <TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE w= idth=3D"95%"> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION width=3D"100%" style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 7px; PA= DDING-LEFT: 7px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=20 > <DIV>Some operating systems run quite happily from the same partiti= on.=20 Corel Linux and BeOS can, for example, be installed in a Windows (D= OS)=20 directory. OS/2 and DOS can live happily in the same partition.</DI= V> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To boot from your other drive is fairly simple: Make the one t= hat is=20 a master now into a slave, and vice versa. Now your D: drive will b= e your=20 c: drive. The first time you may have to boot from a floppy and run= "fdisk=20 /mbr" to write a boot sector to that HD.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If your D: drive is on the same hard disk, but in a separate=20 partition, run fdisk, then select "Set active partition" (or soemth= ing=20 like that, depending which fdisk you are using).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Windows 95, 98 and ME are really only glorified menu systems r= unning=20 on top of a quite conventional DOS. Event though that DOS has been=20 somewhat simplified compared with earlier DOS-only versions, both W= indows=20 95 and 98 can bee booted to DOS only, without running Windows. If a= DOS=20 application does not run in that environment, then that application= is not=20 compatible with that particular version of DOS, and not the other w= ay=20 round. But I found that most applications run fine in DOS versions = higher=20 than 6.2, if Windows is not loaded on top of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Windows NT (2000, XP) is an off-shoot of OS/2 (or the other wa= y=20 round, I forgot...), and is not DOS-based. It uses a built-in DOS=20 emulator. In OS/2 that emulator was clearly visible, and it was pos= sible=20 to switch between it and the native OS/2 (NT) systems at = the=20 command level. Microsoft removed that facility in NT, and the nativ= e OS=20 cannot be accessed any more, only a rather inferior emulated DOS, w= hich=20 handles many system calls completely different than any other DOS. = hence=20 problems with the running of many programs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. Ron</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------<= /I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3Dreceivestrings> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Sunday= , 29=20 December 2002 05:56:06 AM</DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> Re:= Two or=20 more OS's</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Welcome Carol,<BR><BR>Of course there must be a se= parated=20 partition for each operating system<BR>or two or more harddisks...<= BR>but=20 my problem is in booting I suppose.<BR>On HD #2 =3D d:\ there is a = DOS 5.1=20 and on C:\ there is Win95 with DOS<BR>build into it.<BR>Booting can= be=20 done to C:\ only and than the DOS in Win95 is booted.<BR>This DOS-v= ersion=20 causes some bugs in Arachne so I would rather like to<BR>boot from = D:\.=20 But how?<BR><BR>Futhermore newer Win versions like XP do not suppor= t DOS=20 so double<BR>booting with DOS GUI is not possible because there is = no DOS=20 in WinXP.<BR>So... how would anyone with a factory installed WinXP = or=20 something like<BR>that run Arachne?<BR><BR>Anyone...?<BR><BR>CU,=20 Bastiaan<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 15:52:07 -0500, Sam Ewa= lt=20 wrote:<BR><BR>> On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 11:10:31 +0000, Carol Moon=20 wrote:<BR><BR>>> Bastiaan asked if it is possible to have two= or=20 more operating systems<BR>>> on one computer. Yes, with Syste= m=20 Commander or Partition Magic or there<BR>>> is hardware which= allows=20 you to switch between hard drives. I have a<BR>>> device call= ed=20 "NickLock" and two hardrives in my PII. W98 on one HD,<BR>>> = DR-DOS=20 and Linux on the other. There is also one called "Trios" with<BR>&g= t;>=20 which you can select one of three hard drives.<BR><BR>> Welcome = to the=20 list, Carol.<BR><BR>> I wonder if there is a cheap (free would b= e=20 excellent) way to do<BR>> this.<BR><BR>> Sam Ewalt<BR>> Cr= oswell,=20 Michigan, USA<BR>> -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, = <A=20 href=3D"http://arachne.cz/";>http://arachne.cz/</A><BR><BR>.</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%"> =09<TABLE cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 width=3D"100%"> =09<TR> =09<TD width=3D"100%"></TD> =09<TD align=3Dmiddle id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom></TD> =09<TD align=3Dmiddle id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom></TD> =09</TR> =09</TABLE> </TD> </TR> </TABLE> </BODY> </html> - --------------Boundary-00=_L4FWQL80000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 07:49:22 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: now, DOS is JAVA - --------------Boundary-00=_AYHWG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D Yes, Java is indeed different from JavaScript.=0D =0D java is also an operating system in its own right. However, there are onl= y a few dozen Java PCs in the world at this time. Most of those are at Sun Microsystems. Those machines run Java directly. Being fairly small compar= ed with Windows, the whole OS is stored on ROM. Whenever the machine is turn= ed on, there is no waiting time for the OS to load.=0D =0D Most of us don't have a Java machine, so we have to install a "Virtual Machine" first. This virtual machine - or JVM - communicates between Java and the operating system of the physical machine. JVMs are available for practically any platform, hence the portability.=0D =0D Using a virtual machine introduces some problems, though: As really two operating systems are used, with the VM to translate between the two, a noticeable drop in performance can be experienced.=0D =0D Technically speaking, there is really no JVM for Windows. It is really a = DOS application. That's true for the Sun JVM. I have a feeling the Microsoft version may not work under DOS only systems. When installing the Sun Microsystems Java Virtual Machine, the following should be added to the autoexec.bat file:=0D =0D set classpath=3Dc:\java\lib\classes.zip;=0D path=3Dc:\java\bin=0D Java does NOT need Windows to run. The Sun Microsystem's JVM for DOS is a DOS-based application. Even some Windows versions work in a DOS-only environment. Having said that, I have to admit that later versions (highe= r than 1.1) may not work correctly on DOS-only systems. Especially later versions may be taylored to run on the newer, non-DOS based Windows (NT, 2000 and XP). So, if you download a version, try to get an old one:-) The DOS version 1.1 works fine here under DOS 6.22. All Java needs is DOS and the correct Java JRE.=0D =0D Almost all Java programming is done in DOS text mode (even if Windows is = the OS), and the code is compiled from the command prompt. The code is simila= r, but not the same, as C++ code, so C programmers will find it easier to le= arn There are really no practical GUI interfaces for programming in Java. Everything, even graphics, have to be coded in a text editor of some kind before compiling. Borland JBuilder (Windows needed) makes things easier, = but is still only a better text editor. For easier graphical interfaces, Osbo= rne and Lambert's "BreezyGUI" (no Windows needed) can be very helpful for beginners.=0D =0D Even though Java is said to be the fastest growing language (probably because of web applets), I can think of only two truly practical applicat= ion which is "Corel Office for Java", which includes WordPerfect, QuattroPro and a schduler. (Details: http://developer.novell com/research/devnotes/1997/may/16/), and Lotus Kona, which includes everything MS Office does. I was able to download a copy of Corel Office = for Java a couple of years ago, but the site seems to have gone. If anyone is interested, let me know.=0D =0D Sun Microsystems also developed a pure Java web browser called "HotJava", which runs on any java platform below 1.2. Again, if the proper JVM is installed, Windows is not necessary to run this browser. It can handle Ja= va (of course!) and JavaScript as well. The browser can be downloaded from http://java.sun.com/products/hotjava/3.0/=0D =0D The Sun Microsystem DOS JVM is called JAVA-PC and can be downloaded from http://java.sun.com/pr/1998/09/spotnews/sn980922.html. Just follow the li= nks It may not work very well in systems below 486, though.=0D =0D I use the Java for DOS JRE 1.1 on an old 486DX66, 1MB RAM, 30MB HDD. This allows me to connect the machine to the network and thus access the Inter= net using the fully graphical HotJava browser.=0D =0D Another option could be to install RJ-DOS (if you can find it), which is = a DOS platform which includes a JVM.=0D =0D Hope this helps.=0D =0D Dr. Ron=0D =0D - -------Original Message-------=0D =0D From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=0D Date: Sunday, 29 December 2002 05:55:55 AM=0D To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]=0D Subject: Re: now, DOS is JAVA=0D =0D We had a discussion on the List, some time ago, and if I recall=0D correctly JAVA is totaly different to java-script.=0D =0D Java-script is bad... not handled by Arachne=0D =0D Yes, it was mentioned that JAVA is running in every operating system...=0D is it an operating system itself?=0D =0D Who knows some more about JAVA?=0D =0D CU, Bastiaan=0D =0D =0D On Fri, 27 Dec 2002 21:01:30 +0000, Ariel Lachter wrote:=0D =0D > (sorry my bad english)=0D > Yesterday "the bad" are frames.=0D > Now "the bad" is java.=0D > I see in freebyte that make programs that run in any=0D > operating system with virtual java machine.=0D > Maybe is time to change, d.o.s =3D=3D> java.=0D > Who take the bull by the horn's?=0D =0D > -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/=0D =0D =2E - --------------Boundary-00=_AYHWG6G0000000000000 Content-Type: Text/HTML; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-885= 9-1"><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dis= o-8859-1"><html> <head> <meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"IncrediMail 1.0">=0D <!--IncrdiXMLRemarkStart> <IncrdiX-Info> <X-FID>FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000</X-FID> <X-FVER></X-FVER> <X-CNT>;</X-CNT> </IncrdiX-Info> <IncrdiXMLRemarkEnd--> =0A</head> <BODY background=3D"" bgColor=3D#ffffff style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: 0px= 0px; SCROLLBAR-FACE-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 1px; SCROLL= BAR-HIGHLIGHT-COLOR: #083084; SCROLLBAR-SHADOW-COLOR: #868686; SCROLLBAR-= 3DLIGHT-COLOR: #adaead; SCROLLBAR-ARROW-COLOR: #002c7b; FONT-FAMILY: Aria= l; SCROLLBAR-DARKSHADOW-COLOR: #545252" scroll=3D"yes" ORGYPOS=3D"0" X-FV= ER=3D"2.0"> <TABLE border=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 id=3DINCREDIMAINTABLE w= idth=3D"95%"> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDITEXTREGION width=3D"100%" style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 7px; PA= DDING-LEFT: 7px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"=20 > <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, Java is indeed different from JavaScript.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>java is also an operating system in its own right. However, th= ere are=20 only a few dozen Java PCs in the world at this time. Most of those = are at=20 Sun Microsystems. Those machines run Java directly. Being fairly sm= all=20 compared with Windows, the whole OS is stored on ROM. Whenever the = machine=20 is turned on, there is no waiting time for the OS to load.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of us don't have a Java machine, so we have to install a=20 "Virtual Machine" first. This virtual machine - or JVM - communicat= es=20 between Java and the operating system of the physical machine. JVMs= are=20 available for practically any platform, hence the portability.</DIV= > <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Using a virtual machine introduces some problems, though: As r= eally=20 two operating systems are used, with the VM to translate between th= e two,=20 a noticeable drop in performance can be experienced.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Technically speaking, there is really no JVM for Windows. It i= s=20 really a DOS application. That's true for the Sun JVM. I have a fee= ling=20 the Microsoft version may not work under DOS only systems. When ins= talling=20 the Sun Microsystems Java Virtual Machine, the following should be = added=20 to the autoexec.bat file:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D= - -1>set=20 classpath=3Dc:\java\lib\classes.zip;</FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face=3D"Courier New">path=3D<FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20 size=3D-1>c:\java\bin</FONT></FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>Java does NOT need Windows to run. The Sun Microsystem's JVM f= or DOS=20 is a DOS-based application. Even some Windows versions work in a DO= S-only=20 environment. Having said that, I have to admit that later versions = (higher=20 than 1.1) may not work correctly on DOS-only systems. Especially la= ter=20 versions may be taylored to run on the newer, non-DOS based Windows= (NT,=20 2000 and XP). So, if you download a version, try to get an old one:= - -) The=20 DOS version 1.1 works fine here under DOS 6.22. All Java needs is D= OS and=20 the correct Java JRE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Almost all Java programming is done in DOS text mode (even if = Windows=20 is the OS), and the code is compiled from the command prompt. The c= ode is=20 similar, but not the same, as C++ code, so C programmers will find = it=20 easier to learn. There are really no practical GUI interfaces for=20 programming in Java. Everything, even graphics, have to be coded in= a text=20 editor of some kind before compiling. Borland JBuilder (Windows nee= ded)=20 makes things easier, but is still only a better text editor. For ea= sier=20 graphical interfaces, Osborne and Lambert's "BreezyGUI" (no Windows= =20 needed) can be very helpful for beginners.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even though Java is said to be the fastest growing language (p= robably=20 because of web applets), I can think of only two truly practic= al=20 application, which is "Corel Office for Java", which includes=20 WordPerfect, QuattroPro and a schduler. (Details: <A=20 href=3D"http://developer.novell.com/research/devnotes/1997/may/16/"= >http://developer.novell.com/research/devnotes/1997/may/16/</A>),=20 and Lotus Kona, which includes everything MS Office does. I wa= s able=20 to download a copy of Corel Office for Java a couple of years ago, = but the=20 site seems to have gone. If anyone is interested, let me know.</DIV= > <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sun Microsystems also developed a pure Java web browser called= =20 "HotJava", which runs on any java platform below 1.2. Again, if the= proper=20 JVM is installed, Windows is not necessary to run this browser. It = can=20 handle Java (of course!) and JavaScript as well. The browser can be= =20 downloaded from <A=20 href=3D"http://java.sun.com/products/hotjava/3.0/";>http://java.sun.= com/products/hotjava/3.0/</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The Sun Microsystem DOS JVM is called JAVA-PC and can be downl= oaded=20 from <A=20 href=3D"http://java.sun.com/pr/1998/09/spotnews/sn980922.html";>http= ://java.sun.com/pr/1998/09/spotnews/sn980922.html</A>.=20 Just follow the links. It may not work very well in systems below 4= 86,=20 though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use the Java for DOS JRE 1.1 on an old 486DX66, 1MB RAM= , 30MB=20 HDD. This allows me to connect the machine to the network and thus = access=20 the Internet, using the fully graphical HotJava browser.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another option could be to install RJ-DOS (if you can find it)= , which=20 is a DOS platform which includes a JVM.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this helps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dr. Ron</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3DIncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------<= /I></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV id=3Dreceivestrings> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Sunday= , 29=20 December 2002 05:55:55 AM</DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED]</A></DIV> <DIV dir=3Dltr style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> Re:= now, DOS=20 is JAVA</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>We had a discussion on the List, some time ago, an= d if I=20 recall<BR>correctly JAVA is totaly different to=20 java-script.<BR><BR>Java-script is bad... not handled by=20 Arachne<BR><BR>Yes, it was mentioned that JAVA is running in every=20 operating system...<BR>is it an operating system itself?<BR><BR>Who= knows=20 some more about JAVA?<BR><BR>CU, Bastiaan<BR><BR><BR>On Fri, 27 Dec= 2002=20 21:01:30 +0000, Ariel Lachter wrote:<BR><BR>> (sorry my bad=20 english)<BR>> Yesterday "the bad" are frames.<BR>> Now "the b= ad" is=20 java.<BR>> I see in freebyte that make programs that run in any<= BR>>=20 operating system with virtual java machine.<BR>> Maybe is time t= o=20 change, d.o.s =3D=3D> java.<BR>> Who take the bull by the=20 horn's?<BR><BR>> -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, <A= =20 href=3D"http://arachne.cz/";>http://arachne.cz/</A><BR><BR>.</TD> </TR> <TR> <TD id=3DINCREDIFOOTER width=3D"100%"> =09<TABLE cellPadding=3D0 cellSpacing=3D0 width=3D"100%"> =09<TR> =09<TD width=3D"100%"></TD> =09<TD align=3Dmiddle id=3DINCREDISOUND vAlign=3Dbottom></TD> =09<TD align=3Dmiddle id=3DINCREDIANIM vAlign=3Dbottom></TD> =09</TR> =09</TABLE> </TD> </TR> </TABLE> </BODY> </html> - --------------Boundary-00=_AYHWG6G0000000000000-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 16:37:04 -0500 From: "Glenn McCorkle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Gdisk On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 08:44:00 -0800, Ray Andrews wrote: > Hi Glenn, >> Gdisk.exe can then hide/unhide/change active partitions >> Heres how I do it on my 1st HDD >> - --- !w95.bat is located in the root dir of partition 1 --- >> ('hides' all of the Dos partitions from W95, 'unhides' the W95 partition >> and makes that W95 partition active) > This sounds like a must have utility, but why do you hide your DOS partitions > from windows? If you actvate partitions in a different order, would drive > letters be assigned in *that* order, or are they always assigned by > hardware order? (My method of mirroring windows systems relies on being > able to convince any of two or three partitions that they are "C:" when > they are active, so being able to play around with activation order could > be really useful). I 'hide' the Dos partitions so that WinCrap can't screw-them-up. If we ever use the 'delete file' function inside of Win9x A 'recycled' directory is automatically created on the drive that contains the file being deleted. I just did it by leaving partition #1 'unhidden" and then used W95 to delete a file from (the now) drive D: I then put everything back to the Dos setup and found this..... chkdsk c: /f (/f used to 'fix' the invalid cluster caused by WinCrap) :((( Volume MCCORKLE_01 created Jul-16-2001 22:31 contains an invalid cluster. 279,470,080 bytes total disk space. 172,032 bytes in 11 hidden files. 2,048,000 bytes in 248 directories. 214,794,240 bytes in 4860 user files. 62,455,808 bytes available on disk. 8,192 bytes in allocation unit. 34,115 total allocation units on disk. 7,624 available allocation units on disk. 655,360 total bytes of memory. 643,520 total bytes of free memory. 643,040 bytes in largest free memory block. __________________________________________________________________ xdir +h c:\ (to show only 'hidden items' in c:\) rsa-h- 27,880 2-27-97 7:01a c:ibmbio.com rsa-h- 30,081 2-27-97 7:01a c:ibmdos.com rs--h- 101 12-25-02 5:42p c:io.idx r---h- 512 3-07-02 4:31p c:mbr-lilo.bin r---h- 512 12-28-02 1:32a c:oldmbr.bin DIRECTORY 12-29-02 4:01p c:recycled - -sa-h- 572 12-28-02 1:02a c:spinrite.fif total files 6 total bytes 59,658 disk free space 62,439,424 ________________________ xdir \recycled (to show the contents of the 'hidden' directory we now know exists) DIRECTORY 12-29-02 4:01p c:. DIRECTORY 12-29-02 4:01p c:.. - --a--- 1,106 2-25-01 6:32p c:dd0.bat - --a-h- 65 12-29-02 4:01p c:desktop.ini - --a-h- 300 12-29-02 4:01p c:info total files 3 total bytes 1,471 disk free space 62,447,616 ___________________________ There's the deleted file plus 2 more hidden files left there by W95. ___________________________ To get rid of \recycled I had to reboot into W95 Dos and do all of this. attrib -h d:\recycled\*.* del d:\recycled\*.* rd d:\recycled Now do see why I want to 'hide' things from W95 ??? <g g g> ___________________ >> gdisk 1 /-hide /p:1 >> gdisk 1 /act /p:1 > Why do you hide and then activate the same partition? Nope, I was 'unhiding' partition #1 /hide is used to 'hide' a partition. /-hide (minus hide) is used to 'unhide' it. - -- Glenn http://arachne.cz/ http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ ------------------------------ End of arachne-digest V1 #1999 ******************************
