On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > >> With the new Hazelcast based clustering implementation, in fact, cluster >> messaging is done using a Hazelcast topic the same pub/sub semantics. So, >> do we really need to use MB? >> >> What are the advantages of MB compared to Hazelcast topics? >> > > Another aspect to think about is that for MB in memory mode, in the > future, we could end up using Hazelcast topics/queues. If so, shifting from > cluster messaging to MB would not make that much of a difference. > Yes! If we can overcome current DepSync issues with Hazelcast, there will be no point in going for an MB. > > >> >> >> Azeez >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> IMO if our ELB is there and it has MB then one can consider using that >>> MB. The main point is to move away from "cluster messages" for deployment >>> synchronization across a cluster of machines. In fact many people won't use >>> this at all and will do depsync by simple file copy! >>> >>> So there's no point in debating whether MB runs in the manager or in the >>> ELB: if we go with this model we are assuming there's a messaging system in >>> place always and we (carefully) use topics to broadcast relevant info. >>> >>> I haven't seen anyone objecting .. is that correct? >>> >>> If so what are the implications? Where's the depsync code? IMO it should >>> not be in kernel at all. >>> >>> Sanjiva. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Nirmal Fernando <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Supun Malinga <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Nirmal, >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Nirmal Fernando <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Supun, >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's my thoughts. >>>>>> >>>>>> ELB != clustering / cluster messaging >>>>>> >>>>> true, not what I meant actually, rather, ideally since when we got >>>>> away with clustering, we could not be dependent on the ELB as well. >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In most of the deployments today/tomorrow, you will need a load >>>>>> balancer. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> LB won't always be our ELB.. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Ya, that's why I mentioned 'a load balancer'. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> And if you think from a user point of view, adding a new MB server in >>>>>> order to get depsynch is not accepted *always*. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes for that we will have the embedded MB (minimized) on the products. >>>>> >>>> >>>> How would LB get to know about the members? By pointing to each >>>> embedded MB statically. IMO it's better to minimize the static links. >>>> >>>> >>>>>> What I suggested was, >>>>>> >>>>>> since (ELB == a Carbon server) --> ELB also has a embedded MB >>>>>> features --> You can run topics inside ELB >>>>>> >>>>>> Hence, in a deployment, where ELB involves, you can use its embedded >>>>>> MB for communication, instead of using MBs in each mgt node. That way ELB >>>>>> gets to know the topology dynamically and all other nodes in the system >>>>>> should only need to know ELB (we can think this as well known node of the >>>>>> system). >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So how are we going to do the deployment in a smallar setup where >>>>> there is no ELB or a different LB is used?. >>>>> >>>> >>>> If it's a different LB, I don't think there's much choice than >>>> statically defining members. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> thanks, >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Supun Malinga <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Nirmal, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> IMO we shouldn't involve ELB for this. Main reason to move to MB >>>>>>> based depsync is to move out of the cluster messaging dependency and >>>>>>> communication issues with that. Here itself we should not again >>>>>>> complicate >>>>>>> the process involving ELB. IMO depsync and ELB relationship is not >>>>>>> logical. >>>>>>> In a smaller deployment mgt node should have the MB capabilities and in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> larger deployment we can have a separate MB for the purpose.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Isuru Haththotuwa >>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Nirmal Fernando >>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Pradeep Fernando < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> During the recent depsync related meeting, the above $subject >>>>>>>>>> came up.. >>>>>>>>>> here are the some of the discussion points. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - Currently our depsync setup uses cluster messages to send the >>>>>>>>>> repository sync message >>>>>>>>>> - Message loss is a one issue with the current approach. message >>>>>>>>>> replaying can be done, but not the proper way to do it. >>>>>>>>>> - We can use JMS/MB as the communication mechanism between >>>>>>>>>> depsync nodes. >>>>>>>>>> - the solution scales well, message persistence is there by >>>>>>>>>> default. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Approach, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - We ship a embedded MB server with our every product. (p2 >>>>>>>>>> feature installation is one/server profile/ etc is open for >>>>>>>>>> discussion) >>>>>>>>>> - manager node starts up the MB server, worker nodes read from it. >>>>>>>>>> - LB can load balance across cluster either using static >>>>>>>>>> endpoints or can get the endpoint details from the MB itself - LB >>>>>>>>>> doe not >>>>>>>>>> have to use clustering anymore.. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Using static endpoints is not suiting for a scaling dynamic >>>>>>>>> environment. In the case of having our ELB, we could create a topic >>>>>>>>> per a >>>>>>>>> cluster within ELB and then let nodes subscribe to the well known >>>>>>>>> ELB's >>>>>>>>> matching topic. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If there's no LB involved, one mgt node can create a topic which >>>>>>>>> corresponds to its domain and then let other nodes subscribe to this >>>>>>>>> Well >>>>>>>>> known topic. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or we can allow configuring the topic names based on whatever the >>>>>>>> clusters that would be there. ELB can too subscribe to a topic in the >>>>>>>> same >>>>>>>> MB (or whatever the communication bus) so that it can receive >>>>>>>> information >>>>>>>> on endpoints dynamically. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Concerns, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> How are we going to incoperate these changes to future releases. >>>>>>>>>> Deployment is part of the carbon kernel. If we are to implement >>>>>>>>>> above there >>>>>>>>>> are kernel changes. what is the expected release version, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> thanks, >>>>>>>>>> --Pradeep >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks & regards, >>>>>>>>> Nirmal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer- Platform Technologies Team, WSO2 Inc. >>>>>>>>> Mobile: +94715779733 >>>>>>>>> Blog: http://nirmalfdo.blogspot.com/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Thanks and Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Isuru H. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Supun Malinga, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer, >>>>>>> WSO2 Inc. >>>>>>> http://wso2.com >>>>>>> email: [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>>>> mobile: +94 (0)71 56 91 321 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks & regards, >>>>>> Nirmal >>>>>> >>>>>> Senior Software Engineer- Platform Technologies Team, WSO2 Inc. >>>>>> Mobile: +94715779733 >>>>>> Blog: http://nirmalfdo.blogspot.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Supun Malinga, >>>>> >>>>> Senior Software Engineer, >>>>> WSO2 Inc. >>>>> http://wso2.com >>>>> email: [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>> mobile: +94 (0)71 56 91 321 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Thanks & regards, >>>> Nirmal >>>> >>>> Senior Software Engineer- Platform Technologies Team, WSO2 Inc. >>>> Mobile: +94715779733 >>>> Blog: http://nirmalfdo.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Architecture mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. >>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/ >>> email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880| +1 >>> 650 265 8311 >>> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ >>> >>> >>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Architecture mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Afkham Azeez* >> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >> * <http://www.apache.org/>** >> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 >> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* >> twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >> * >> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* >> * >> * >> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >> > > > > -- > *Afkham Azeez* > Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > * <http://www.apache.org/>** > email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919 > blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>* > twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> > * > linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez* > * > * > *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture > > -- Isuru Perera Senior Software Engineer | WSO2, Inc. | http://wso2.com/ Lean . Enterprise . Middleware about.me/chrishantha
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