On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> With the new Hazelcast based clustering implementation, in fact, cluster
>> messaging is done using a Hazelcast topic the same pub/sub semantics. So,
>> do we really need to use MB?
>>
>> What are the advantages of MB compared to Hazelcast topics?
>>
>
> Another aspect to think about is that for MB in memory mode, in the
> future, we could end up using Hazelcast topics/queues. If so, shifting from
> cluster messaging to MB would not make that much of a difference.
>
Yes! If we can overcome current DepSync issues with Hazelcast, there will
be no point in going for an MB.

>
>
>>
>>
>> Azeez
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[email protected]>wrote:
>>
>>> IMO if our ELB is there and it has MB then one can consider using that
>>> MB. The main point is to move away from "cluster messages" for deployment
>>> synchronization across a cluster of machines. In fact many people won't use
>>> this at all and will do depsync by simple file copy!
>>>
>>> So there's no point in debating whether MB runs in the manager or in the
>>> ELB: if we go with this model we are assuming there's a messaging system in
>>> place always and we (carefully) use topics to broadcast relevant info.
>>>
>>> I haven't seen anyone objecting .. is that correct?
>>>
>>> If so what are the implications? Where's the depsync code? IMO it should
>>> not be in kernel at all.
>>>
>>> Sanjiva.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Nirmal Fernando <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Supun Malinga <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Nirmal,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Nirmal Fernando <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Supun,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's my thoughts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ELB != clustering / cluster messaging
>>>>>>
>>>>> true, not what I meant actually, rather, ideally since when we got
>>>>> away with clustering, we could not be dependent on the ELB as well.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In most of the deployments today/tomorrow, you will need a load
>>>>>> balancer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LB won't always be our ELB..
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ya, that's why I mentioned 'a load balancer'.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> And if you think from a user point of view, adding a new MB server in
>>>>>> order to get depsynch is not accepted *always*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes for that we will have the embedded MB (minimized) on the products.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How would LB get to know about the members? By pointing to each
>>>> embedded MB statically. IMO it's better to minimize the static links.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> What I suggested was,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> since (ELB == a Carbon server) --> ELB also has a embedded MB
>>>>>> features --> You can run topics inside ELB
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hence, in a deployment, where ELB involves, you can use its embedded
>>>>>> MB for communication, instead of using MBs in each mgt node. That way ELB
>>>>>> gets to know the topology dynamically and all other nodes in the system
>>>>>> should only need to know ELB (we can think this as well known node of the
>>>>>> system).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So how are we going to do the deployment in a smallar setup where
>>>>> there is no ELB or a different LB is used?.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it's a different LB, I don't think there's much choice than
>>>> statically defining members.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Supun Malinga <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Nirmal,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IMO we shouldn't involve ELB for this. Main reason to move to MB
>>>>>>> based depsync is to move out of the cluster messaging dependency and
>>>>>>> communication issues with that. Here itself we should not again 
>>>>>>> complicate
>>>>>>> the process involving ELB. IMO depsync and ELB relationship is not 
>>>>>>> logical.
>>>>>>> In a smaller deployment mgt node should have the MB capabilities and in 
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> larger deployment we can have a separate MB for the purpose..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Isuru Haththotuwa 
>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Nirmal Fernando 
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Pradeep Fernando <
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> During the recent depsync related meeting, the above $subject
>>>>>>>>>> came up..
>>>>>>>>>> here are the some of the discussion points.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - Currently our depsync setup uses cluster messages to send the
>>>>>>>>>> repository sync message
>>>>>>>>>>  - Message loss is a one issue with the current approach. message
>>>>>>>>>> replaying can be done, but not the proper way to do it.
>>>>>>>>>> -  We can use JMS/MB as the communication mechanism between
>>>>>>>>>> depsync nodes.
>>>>>>>>>> - the solution scales well, message persistence is there by
>>>>>>>>>> default.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Approach,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> - We ship a embedded MB server with our every product. (p2
>>>>>>>>>> feature installation is one/server profile/ etc is open for 
>>>>>>>>>> discussion)
>>>>>>>>>> - manager node starts up the MB server, worker nodes read from it.
>>>>>>>>>> - LB can load balance across cluster either using static
>>>>>>>>>> endpoints or can get the endpoint details from the MB itself - LB 
>>>>>>>>>> doe not
>>>>>>>>>> have to use clustering anymore..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Using static endpoints is not suiting for a scaling dynamic
>>>>>>>>> environment. In the case of having our ELB, we could create a topic 
>>>>>>>>> per a
>>>>>>>>> cluster within ELB and then let nodes subscribe to the well known 
>>>>>>>>> ELB's
>>>>>>>>> matching topic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If there's no LB involved, one mgt node can create a topic which
>>>>>>>>> corresponds to its domain and then let other nodes subscribe to this 
>>>>>>>>> Well
>>>>>>>>> known topic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or we can allow configuring the topic names based on whatever the
>>>>>>>> clusters that would be there. ELB can too subscribe to a topic in the 
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>> MB (or whatever the communication bus) so that it can receive 
>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>> on endpoints dynamically.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Concerns,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How are we going to incoperate these changes to future releases.
>>>>>>>>>> Deployment is part of the carbon kernel. If we are to implement 
>>>>>>>>>> above there
>>>>>>>>>> are kernel changes. what is the expected release version,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> --Pradeep
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks & regards,
>>>>>>>>> Nirmal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer- Platform Technologies Team, WSO2 Inc.
>>>>>>>>> Mobile: +94715779733
>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://nirmalfdo.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Thanks and Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Isuru H.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Supun Malinga,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer,
>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.
>>>>>>> http://wso2.com
>>>>>>> email: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> mobile: +94 (0)71 56 91 321
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks & regards,
>>>>>> Nirmal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer- Platform Technologies Team, WSO2 Inc.
>>>>>> Mobile: +94715779733
>>>>>> Blog: http://nirmalfdo.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Supun Malinga,
>>>>>
>>>>> Senior Software Engineer,
>>>>> WSO2 Inc.
>>>>> http://wso2.com
>>>>> email: [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>>>> mobile: +94 (0)71 56 91 321
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Thanks & regards,
>>>> Nirmal
>>>>
>>>> Senior Software Engineer- Platform Technologies Team, WSO2 Inc.
>>>> Mobile: +94715779733
>>>> Blog: http://nirmalfdo.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;  http://wso2.com/
>>> email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880| +1
>>> 650 265 8311
>>> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>
>>>
>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Architecture mailing list
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>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Afkham Azeez*
>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com
>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
>> * <http://www.apache.org/>**
>> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919
>> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>*
>> twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez>
>> *
>> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez*
>> *
>> *
>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware*
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Afkham Azeez*
> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com
> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/
> * <http://www.apache.org/>**
> email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 77 3320919
> blog: **http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org>*
> twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez*<http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez>
> *
> linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez*
> *
> *
> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware*
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>


-- 
Isuru Perera
Senior Software Engineer | WSO2, Inc. | http://wso2.com/
Lean . Enterprise . Middleware

about.me/chrishantha
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