I disagree - of course caches can get out of sync .. that's part of the
definition of being a distributed cache. However the values that you share
in a cache are typically for performance optimization, not for reliable
execution.

On the question in your previous mail - I think we're asking this
backwards. The first question is whether reliable messaging is necessary
for deployment synchronization. I believe the answer that is a firm yes as
otherwise deployment and undeployment is not reliably updated to all nodes.

The second question is whether you need reliable messaging for every
interaction between nodes of a cluster. The answer to that I believe is a
firm no. Distributed cache is a perfectly good example.

Sanjiva.

On Tuesday, September 17, 2013, Afkham Azeez wrote:

> Based on the message loss argument, in that case even our new caching
> implementation has to be switched to use MB instead of Hazelcast. If Hz
> cannot recover from such losses, the caches will contain obsolete values.
> Caching is built on Hz maps. Cluster messaging is built on Hz topic. If you
> argue that one cannot scale on the cloud & handle message losses/cluster
> partitioning, then the other does not work as well. As I mentioned earlier,
> depsync is only one type of cluster message.
>
> I would like to have a meeting next week when I return before the final
> decision to move to MB is made, unless that has been already made, and this
> input won't make any difference.
>
>  Azeez
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> DepSync is only one type of cluster message. There are many other types of
> cluster messages. Are we proposing to use MB for those as well?
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Eranda Sooriyabandara 
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> Hi Azeez,
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Unlike Tribes, Hazelcast has been designed to scale on the cloud. All the
> cluster messaging related issues we were seeing were due to Tribes, and
> Tribes was designed only for datacenter scale.
>
>
> Main problem of hazelcast cluster message based deployment synchronizer is
> reliability. What if one node didn't get the update message? That node may
> not updated until next change.
>
>
> Same thing can happen even with MB. If there is a network partition,
> messages may not be received. But once the partitions are merged, the
> messages that were not received should be received. Unlike Tribes,
> Hazelcast has a good set of distributed collections, and I believe, the
> messages posted to topics would be properly received. Adding MB just to
> send depsync messages is overkill IMO, and the decision has been based on
> the problems that were faced with the old Tribes based implementation.
>
>
>
> thanks
> Eranda
>
>
>
> Azeez
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 9:49 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[email protected]>wrote:
>
> I don't see the point of marrying into Hazelcast at that level. The
> problem required here is a queuing solution because we need it to scale
> from simple to very large installations involving multiple AZs etc.. Many
> times persistent reliability is important (esp for deployment messages).
> Why would we re-invent all of that on top of Hazelcast instead of using MB?
> Of course we need an embedded, in-memory, ultra-light weight system too for
> the simple case and MB can deliver that quite easily.
>
> Sanjiva.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 12:07 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 11:20 PM, Isuru Perera <
>
>

-- 
Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;  http://wso2.com/
email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880 | +1
650 265 8311
blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/

Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
_______________________________________________
Architecture mailing list
[email protected]
https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture

Reply via email to