On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 10:42 AM, Isura Karunaratne <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In my opinion, admin defined security questions are more secure than
> user-defined security questions in general. Because some users may define
> simple questions and answers which attackers can guess easily.
>

I don't agree on that :). An admin's questions needs to be generic so that
they apply to everybody. Ex: "What's your mother's maiden name?". They can
never ask personalized questions such as "What is the name of the 3rd
school you attended?" because not everybody has attended 3 or more schools.
Therefore answers to admin defined questions are very easily guessable
compared to user-defined/personalized questions.

Yes, users can be lazy and define easy questions, but we can easily get
around that by putting a simple advice along with a few examples like the
one above.

>
> Still, most of the users who use Identity Server, use this feature. So, I
> am -1 to remove feature completely.  We can give following options, so
> users can decide better option for them.
>
>    - Email based recovery
>    - Security Question-based recovery
>    - Email + Security Question based recovery.
>
>
> Thanks
> Isura.
>
>
> *Isura Dilhara Karunaratne*
> Senior Software Engineer | WSO2
> Email: [email protected]
> Mob : +94 772 254 810 <+94%2077%20225%204810>
> Blog : http://isurad.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Rushmin Fernando <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ishara,
>>
>> Since challenge questions themselves are insecure, customers will not use
>> only that feature in a production system. So IMO it is not a 'good to have'
>> option even.
>>
>> When I tried to reset my salesfroce password yesterday, they emailed me a
>> link and it took me to a page with my security questions. So it was an *email
>> + security questions* solution.
>>
>> But my guess is they might be using an existing security questions
>> feature of them.
>>
>> In our case, we have still not implemented it. So I'm -1 for implementing
>> challenge questions.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Ishara Karunarathna <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 11:17 PM, Nuwan Dias <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Ishara Karunarathna <[email protected]
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Though challenge question is not secure mechanism this is a basic
>>>>> stuff client expect from an IAM solution.
>>>>> And having another recovery mechanism with this can help to make it
>>>>> strong as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I'm still doubt on dropping this. And if we are completely dropping
>>>>> this. We should have first class support for other
>>>>> recovery mechanisms and well documented on this.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's the idea right? I was under the impression that we will at least
>>>> have an email based recovery mechanism in place. If we're saying challenge
>>>> questions are our primary mode of account recovery, that's not right IMO.
>>>> AFAIS, challenge questions are 'good to have' and email recovery is 'must
>>>> have'.
>>>>
>>> Yes challenge question should not be a primary mechanism. But still its
>>> better to be available in the product.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -Ishara
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 6:21 PM, Danushka Fernando <[email protected]
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If everyone had it in past and no longer using it, big +1 for
>>>>>> removing it. Only concern is about existing customers. If we can explain
>>>>>> the rationale behind removing it we are in clear I guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> @Sewmini
>>>>>> Yes there is a reviewed user story for this. But when we discuss
>>>>>> about some implementation details today, we realized that lot of people 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> this and removed this due to vulnerabilities in it. Hence Indunil started
>>>>>> this discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks & Regards
>>>>>> Danushka Fernando
>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer
>>>>>> WSO2 inc. http://wso2.com/
>>>>>> Mobile : +94716332729 <+94%2071%20633%202729>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 18, 2017 6:04 PM, "KasunG Gajasinghe" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Security questions are a thing of the past. Google, Facebook they
>>>>>>> all have removed the security questions based password recovery 
>>>>>>> mechanisms.
>>>>>>> [1] [2]  So, +1 to drop this support in IS 6.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2014/12/google-drops-su
>>>>>>> pport-for-security.html
>>>>>>> [2] https://www.facebook.com/help/community/question/?id=815
>>>>>>> 382261879187
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Nuwan Dias <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Indunil Upeksha Rathnayake <
>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Currently we are working on implementing C5 user portal in IS.
>>>>>>>>> Appreciate your suggestions/ideas for the following concerns regarding
>>>>>>>>> challenge questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *1)  Is it necessary to include challenge questions in IS 6.0.0 as
>>>>>>>>> a recovery option?*
>>>>>>>>> Seems like secret questions are neither secure nor reliable enough
>>>>>>>>> to be used as a account recovery mechanism. And also most of the 
>>>>>>>>> vendors
>>>>>>>>> has completely removed support for security questions including 
>>>>>>>>> google. In
>>>>>>>>> C5, security question sets will be some what strengthen the recovery 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> makes it hard to guess the questions. But seems like need to consider
>>>>>>>>> whether it need to be implemented or not.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I personally have never used a security question to recover any of
>>>>>>>> the accounts of which I forgot passwords. Its always a recovery through
>>>>>>>> email or mobile. Therefore I don't see this as a valuable feature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *2)  Is it necessary to include security questions in user self
>>>>>>>>> sign-up page? If needed, following way is appropriate?*
>>>>>>>>> As we have planned, in C5, admin can create several security
>>>>>>>>> question sets and can configure the minimum number of questions that 
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>> to be answered by a user. So that in self sign up UI when populating
>>>>>>>>> security questions to a user,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    - security questions need to be categorized according to the
>>>>>>>>>    security question sets
>>>>>>>>>    - all the sets need to be populated for the user
>>>>>>>>>    - user can select any number of security questions from
>>>>>>>>>    different sets not from a same set
>>>>>>>>>    - need to validate whether the user has answered for the
>>>>>>>>>    minimum number of questions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When an answer to a question is personal, the question itself is
>>>>>>>> probably personal too. Therefore I don't think an admin can decide on 
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> questions to be asked from you. Its unlikely you'll remember an answer 
>>>>>>>> to a
>>>>>>>> question which is not very relevant to you. If we're doing this (I'm
>>>>>>>> negative on implementing the feature itself too :)), I think we should 
>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>> the user decide his own questions and answers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Appreciate your ideas on this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks and Regards
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Indunil Upeksha Rathnayake
>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer | WSO2 Inc
>>>>>>>>> Email    [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> Mobile   0772182255 <077%20218%202255>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Dev mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> http://wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dev
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nuwan Dias
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Software Architect - WSO2, Inc. http://wso2.com
>>>>>>>> email : [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Phone : +94 777 775 729 <077%20777%205729>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Kasun Gajasinghe*Associate Technical Lead, WSO2 Inc.
>>>>>>> email: kasung AT spamfree wso2.com
>>>>>>> linked-in: http://lk.linkedin.com/in/gajasinghe
>>>>>>> blog: http://kasunbg.org
>>>>>>> phone: +1 650-745-4499 <(650)%20745-4499>, 77 678 0813
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
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>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ishara Karunarathna
>>>>> Associate Technical Lead
>>>>> WSO2 Inc. - lean . enterprise . middleware |  wso2.com
>>>>>
>>>>> email: [email protected],   blog: isharaaruna.blogspot.com,   mobile:
>>>>> +94717996791 <+94%2071%20799%206791>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Architecture mailing list
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>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nuwan Dias
>>>>
>>>> Software Architect - WSO2, Inc. http://wso2.com
>>>> email : [email protected]
>>>> Phone : +94 777 775 729 <+94%2077%20777%205729>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ishara Karunarathna
>>> Associate Technical Lead
>>> WSO2 Inc. - lean . enterprise . middleware |  wso2.com
>>>
>>> email: [email protected],   blog: isharaaruna.blogspot.com,   mobile:
>>> +94717996791 <+94%2071%20799%206791>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Architecture mailing list
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>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Best Regards*
>>
>> *Rushmin Fernando*
>> *Technical Lead*
>>
>> WSO2 Inc. <http://wso2.com/> - Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
>>
>> mobile : +94775615183
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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-- 
Nuwan Dias

Software Architect - WSO2, Inc. http://wso2.com
email : [email protected]
Phone : +94 777 775 729
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