> On May 31, 2015, at 3:45 PM, Milton L Mueller <[email protected]> wrote: > > Owen, > I am not buying the argument that this has anything to do with anti-flipping. > We are talking about internal transfers – movement to another arm of the same > company. That’s not flipping, that’s moving numbers around the same entity’s > network.
As stated… The concern is the potential for A->B->Money lather, rinse, repeat. > If people abuse the policy ARIN has the leverage to affect the abusers, and > that should be enough. No need for a global policy. ARIN has no leverage once the resources have left the ARIN region, so your argument here is specious at best. Owen > <> > From: Owen DeLong [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 2:10 PM > To: Milton L Mueller > Cc: Rudolph Daniel; [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2 > > I don’t think anyone has said any such thing, Milton. > > What we have said is that it seems impossible to allow relaxed inter-RIR > transfers within an organization in a way that preserves the anti-flip > provisions the community has deemed necessary without having globally > coordinated policy for the anti-flip provisions. > > Whether you support having such a thing or not, that much seems to be simply > the facts of the situation. > > The policy in China is unrelated except to the extent that it was used as an > example of a reason that relaxed transfer policy is needed. > > Owen > > On May 31, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Milton L Mueller <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > It’s very naïve for people to suggest that national policy in China is going > to be affected by a global policy of RIRs. > --MM > > From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] On > Behalf Of Rudolph Daniel > Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:49 PM > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2 > > >>>That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in question > >>>can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those > >>>that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if > >>>they desire to do so.<<< > Tend to agree ...It may be better addressed at global policy level if at all. > RD > On May 30, 2015 12:00 PM, <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers > to Specified Recipients) (Owen DeLong) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 18:16:34 -0700 > From: Owen DeLong <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > To: Jason Schiller <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: "[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 > (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients) > Message-ID: <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > If it were enforceable, it would address my concern. > > The problem is that we are then looking to have an ARIN contract enjoin an > action by the organization in another RIR which I am not sure would give us > any recourse whatsoever were that contract to be violated. > > That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in question can > be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those that > are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if they desire > to do so. > > We?ve already seen that attempting to unilaterally influence minimum policy > requirements on other regions is unlikely to work. Witness RIPEs recent > ?workaround? to ?compatible needs basis?. I am not especially interested in > expanding this problem space. > > Owen > > > On May 29, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Jason Schiller <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > Owen, > > > > So does this text cover your proposal then? > > > > Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2 > > Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients) > > > > Date: 26 May 2015 > > > > Problem Statement: > > > > Organizations that obtain a 24 month supply of IP addresses via the > > transfer market and then have an unexpected change in business plan > > are unable to move IP addresses to the proper RIR within the first 12 > > months of receipt. > > > > Policy statement: > > > > Replace 8.4, bullet 4, to read: > > > > "> Source entities within the ARIN region must not have received a > > transfer, allocation, or assignment of IPv4 number resources > > from ARIN for the 12 months prior to the approval of a transfer > > request. > > - This restriction does not include M&A transfers. > > - This restriction does not include a transfer to a wholly owned > > subsidiary out side of the ARIN service region > > if the recipient org will be required to not transfer any IP space > > for the remaining balance of 12 month window." > > > > > > On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Owen DeLong <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> > > wrote: > > > >> On May 28, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Jason Schiller <[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > >> > >> Owen, > >> > >> How does that differ from the policy text I sent? > >> > >> Can you send an idea of policy text? > >> > >> I thought the text I sent said that an ARIN org can transfer IPs out to > >> another wholely owned subsidiary in another RIR region if they have been > >> the recipient of transfer in less that 12 months IF the recipient org will > >> be required (read by recipient's RIR policy) to hold the transfered > >> resource for the balance of the 12 months. > >> > >> > > Your proposal allows substitution. > > > > ARIN->Other RIR space A > > Space B Other RIR-> Money/etc. > > > > I want to see substitution transfers prohibited. > > > > Owen > > > >> ___Jason > >> > >> On May 28, 2015 8:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > >> <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > >> Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists. > >> > >> Owen > >> > >> > On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <[email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > >> > > >> > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <[email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > >> > <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of > >> >> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. > >> >> However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you > >> >> can't merely use that as a way to move addresses out of flip protection > >> >> to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a less > >> >> restrictive transfer policy. > >> >> > >> >> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the > >> >> same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to > >> >> subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an > >> >> external party for at least 12 months. > >> > > >> > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of > >> > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that > >> > effect. > >> > > >> > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated > >> > transfer > >> > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy > >> > explicit > >> > in this regard in determination of compatibility. > >> > > >> > /John > >> > > >> > John Curran > >> > President and CEO > >> > ARIN > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________________ > > Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>|571-266-0006 > > <tel:571-266-0006> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20150529/10dd910c/attachment-0001.html > > <http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20150529/10dd910c/attachment-0001.html>> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> > > End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 119, Issue 23 > ****************************************** > _______________________________________________ > PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> > Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any > issues.
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