On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 2:40 PM, Martin Hannigan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I use my addresses globally and will continue to do so as needed. I've > never needed a policy to tell me I can or can't. > > Why can't ARIN just confirm that they're a business and be done with it? > Isn't this what we pay them for? > ARIN staff has indicated that a policy like this one is required for them to stop interpreting ICP-2 as requiring in-region use of addresses. In other words, you may not have needed a policy to use your addresses globally, but ARIN has indicated they do need a policy for others to do so. > GOTO 10 > > Not in favor. > Do you have any arguments against the proposal? "I've never needed a policy to tell me I can use my addresses globally" doesn't seem sufficient to me as reason to oppose it, particularly since others have not been able to do so. -Scott > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 9:38 AM, ARIN <[email protected]> wrote: > >> ARIN-2015-5 has been revised. >> >> You are encouraged to discuss the merits and your concerns of Draft >> Policy 2015-5 on the Public Policy Mailing List. >> >> The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance >> of this draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource >> Policy as stated in the PDP. Specifically, these principles are: >> >> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration >> * Technically Sound >> * Supported by the Community >> >> ARIN-2015-5 is below and can be found at: >> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_5.html >> >> Regards, >> >> Communications and Member Services >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> >> ## * ## >> >> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-5 >> Out of region use >> >> Date: 9 September 2015 >> >> Problem statement: >> >> Current policy neither clearly forbids nor clearly permits out of region >> use of ARIN registered resources. This has created confusion and >> controversy within the ARIN community for some time. Earlier work on this >> issue has explored several options to restrict or otherwise limit out of >> region use. None of these options have gained consensus within the >> community. The next logical option is a proposal that clearly permits out >> of region use while addressing the key concerns expressed about unlimited >> openness to out of region use and enables ARIN staff to implement the >> policy efficiently. >> >> Policy statement: >> >> Create new Section X: ARIN registered resources may be used outside the >> ARIN service region. >> >> Out of region use of ARIN registered resources are valid justification >> for additional number resources, provided that the applicant has a real and >> substantial connection with the ARIN region which applicant must prove (as >> described below) and is using the same type of resources (with a delegation >> lineage back to an ARIN allocation or assignment) within the ARIN service >> region as follows: >> >> * IPv4: At least a /22 used in region >> * IPv6: At least a /44 used in region >> * ASN: At least one ASN present on one or more peering sessions and/or >> routers within the region. >> >> A real and substantial connection shall be defined as carrying on >> business in the ARIN region in a meaningful manner, whether for or not for >> profit. The determination as to whether an entity is carrying on business >> in the ARIN region in a meaningful manner shall be made by ARIN. Simply >> being incorporated in the ARIN region shall not be sufficient, on its own, >> to prove that an entity is carrying on business in the ARIN region in a >> meaningful manner. Methods that entities may consider using, including >> cumulatively, to prove that they are carrying on business in the ARIN >> region in a meaningful manner include: >> * Demonstrating a physical presence in the ARIN region through a bricks >> and mortar location that is actually used for the purposes of conducting >> business in the ARIN region in a meaningful manner. That is to say, the >> location is not merely a registered office that serves no other business >> purpose. >> * Demonstrating that the entity has staff in the ARIN region. The greater >> the number of staff, the stronger this connecting factor is. >> * Demonstrating that the entity holds assets in the ARIN region. The >> greater the asset value, the stronger this connecting factor is. >> * Demonstrating that the entity provides services to or solicits sales >> from residents of the ARIN region. >> * Demonstrating that the entity holds annual meetings in the ARIN region. >> * Demonstrating that the entity raises investment capital from investors >> in the ARIN region. >> * Demonstrating that the entity has a registered office in the ARIN >> region, although this factor on its own shall not be sufficient. >> * Any other method that the entity considers appropriate. >> The weight accorded to any of the above-noted factors, if any, shall be >> determined solely by ARIN. >> >> The services and facilities used to justify the need for ARIN resources >> that will be used out of region cannot also be used to justify resource >> requests from another RIR. When a request for resources from ARIN is >> justified by need located within another RIR's service region, an officer >> of the application must attest that the same services and facilities have >> not been used as the basis for a resource request in the other region(s). >> ARIN reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's number >> holdings in the region(s) of proposed use, but this should happen only when >> there are significant reasons to suspect duplicate requests. >> >> Comments: >> >> a) Timetable for implementation: Various iterations of this policy have >> been presented and debated by ARIN for well over a year now. Given the >> amount of time that has already been spent on developing a policy, ideally, >> this policy would be implemented as soon as possible. >> b) Explanation of draft policy: The draft policy addresses both the >> problem statement as well as the concerns raised at ARIN 35 by participants >> as well as ARIN counsel. >> Firstly, the draft policy addresses the concerns of ARIN counsel as well >> as some of the participants at ARIN 35 by ensuring that anyone requesting >> numbered resources from ARIN has a real and substantial connection with the >> ARIN region. This should go a long way to addressing concerns about fraud, >> legal liability, and interference with the jurisdiction of other RIRs. >> In addition, by placing the burden of proof for demonstrating a real and >> substantial connection with the ARIN region on the applicant, the amount of >> work required of ARIN staff to apply the policy will be reduced. >> The factors noted above are suggestions that an entity may use to >> demonstrate to ARIN that it is carrying on business in the ARIN region in a >> meaningful manner. These factors are all indicative, some more than others, >> that an entity has a real and substantial connection to the ARIN region >> through the carrying on of business in the ARIN region in a meaningful >> manner. Not all of the factors will apply in a given case and proving a >> single factor may not be enough to satisfy ARIN that an entity is carrying >> on business in the region in a meaningful manner. The list of factors is >> meant to be quite broad, including an open-ended factor, in order to >> capture the diversity of businesses that operate in the ARIN region and >> that may justifiably require numbered resources from ARIN. This approach is >> very similar to the practical method that courts typically apply to assess >> whether parties have a sufficient connection to a jurisdiction so as to >> require them to submit themselves to the courts of that jurisdiction. >> >> This draft policy is a substantial improvement over the previous version >> of ARIN-2014-1 in terms of reducing the overall risk to the community by >> requiring a real and substantial connection between an entity requesting >> resources and the ARIN region. >> >> ##### >> >> ARIN STAFF & LEGAL ASSESSMENT >> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-5 >> OUT OF REGION USE >> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_5.html >> >> Date of Assessment: 18 August 2015 >> >> ___ >> 1. Summary (Staff Understanding) >> >> This proposal would allow an organization to receive Internet number >> resources from ARIN for use out of region as long as the applicant is >> currently using at least the equivalent of a /22 of IPv4, /44 of IPv6, or 1 >> ASN within the ARIN service region, respectively. In addition, the >> applicant must have a real and substantial connection with the ARIN region, >> which the applicant shall be responsible for proving. >> >> ___ >> 2. Comments >> >> A. ARIN Staff Comments >> >> This policy would increase the complexity of ARIN staff review work in >> request cases that fit the profile of this policy. There would in an >> increase in the vetting and utilization verification work currently >> conducted by ARIN staff. >> >> There are conflicting instructions to ARIN staff in this policy text. >> Specifically, the text says, "The determination as to whether an entity is >> carrying on business in the ARIN region in a meaningful manner shall be >> made by ARIN." Then at the end of the examples given, the text states, "Any >> other method that the entity considers appropriate." This implies that ARIN >> staff may have to accept anything presented by an organization as a method >> of proving a "real and substantial connection with the ARIN region." >> >> It is not clear if the utilized /22, /44 or AS Number are required to >> have been issued by ARIN or is it allowable to be from another RIR. >> >> This policy would be placed in the NRPM as section 9, "Out of Region Use". >> >> B. ARIN General Counsel – Legal Assessment >> >> If the policy is enacted it will require ARIN staff to work with counsel >> with some attendant increase in costs in the first year to manage >> implementation. The policy is consistent with standard legal principles >> routinely utilized in the ARIN region. The policy creates no material legal >> risks. >> >> ___ >> 3. Resource Impact >> This policy could have a major resource impact from an implementation >> aspect. It is estimated that implementation would occur within 12 months >> after ratification by the ARIN Board of Trustees. The following would be >> needed in order to implement: >> >> * Updated guidelines and internal procedures >> * Staff training >> * Engineering: Engineering efforts to handle out of region business rules >> may besubstantial as our system only supports ascii now. If there is a need >> for unicode character sets, then there is a substantial amount of work >> required to upgrade the DB and applications to support unicode. >> Additionally, we would need to discuss how to display unicode characters in >> port 43 whois. There may be additional tools needed by RSD staff to measure >> in region/out of region use. >> >> ___ >> 4. Proposal / Draft Policy Text Assessed >> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2015-5 >> >> Date: 23 June 2015 >> >> Problem statement: >> Current policy neither clearly forbids nor clearly permits out or region >> use of ARIN registered resources. This has created confusion and >> controversy within the ARIN community for some time. Earlier work on this >> issue has explored several options to restrict or otherwise limit out of >> region use. None of these options have gained consensus within the >> community. The next logical option is a proposal that clearly permits out >> of region use while addressing the key concerns expressed about unlimited >> openness to out of region use and enables ARIN staff to implement the >> policy efficiently. >> >> Policy statement: >> Create new Section X: >> ARIN registered resources may be used outside the ARIN service region. >> Out of region use of IPv4, IPv6, or ASNs are valid justification for >> additional number resources if the applicant is currently using at least >> the equivalent of a /22 of IPv4, /44 of IPv6, or 1 ASN within the ARIN >> service region, respectively. In addition, the applicant must have a real >> and substantial connection with the ARIN region, which the applicant shall >> be responsible for proving. >> A real and substantial connection shall be defined as carrying on >> business in the ARIN region in a meaningful manner, whether for or not for >> profit. The determination as to whether an entity is carrying on business >> in the ARIN region in a meaningful manner shall be made by ARIN. Simply >> being incorporated in the ARIN region shall not be sufficient, on its own, >> to prove that an entity is carrying on business in the ARIN region in a >> meaningful manner. Methods that entities may consider using, including >> cumulatively, to prove that they are carrying on business in the ARIN >> region in a meaningful manner include: >> * Demonstrating a physical presence in the ARIN region through a bricks >> and mortar location that is actually used for the purposes of conducting >> business in the ARIN region in a meaningful manner. That is to say, the >> location is not merely a registered office that serves no other business >> purpose. >> * Demonstrating that the entity has staff in the ARIN region. The greater >> the number of staff, the stronger this connecting factor is. >> * Demonstrating that the entity holds assets in the ARIN region. The >> greater the asset value, the stronger this connecting factor is. >> * Demonstrating that the entity provides services to or solicits sales >> from residents of the ARIN region. >> * Demonstrating that the entity holds annual meetings in the ARIN region. >> * Demonstrating that the entity raises investment capital from investors >> in the ARIN region. >> * Demonstrating that the entity has a registered office in the ARIN >> region, although this factor on its own shall not be sufficient. >> * Any other method that the entity considers appropriate. >> The services and facilities used to justify the need for ARIN resources >> that will be used out of region cannot also be used to justify resource >> requests from another RIR. When a request for resources from ARIN is >> justified by need located within another RIR's service region, the officer >> of the applicant must attest that the same services and facilities have not >> been used as the basis for a resource request in the other region(s). ARIN >> reserves the right to request a listing of all the applicant's number >> holdings in the region(s) of proposed use, but this should happen only when >> there are significant reasons to suspect duplicate requests. >> >> Comments: >> a) Timetable for implementation: Various iterations of this policy have >> been presented and debated by ARIN for well over a year now. Given the >> amount of time that has already been spent on developing a policy, ideally, >> this policy would be implemented as soon as possible. >> b) Explanation of draft policy: The draft policy addresses both the >> problem statement as well as the concerns raised at ARIN 35 by participants >> as well as ARIN counsel. >> Firstly, the draft policy addresses the concerns of ARIN counsel as well >> as some of the participants at ARIN 35 by ensuring that anyone requesting >> numbered resources from ARIN has a real and substantial connection with the >> ARIN region. This should go a long way to addressing concerns about fraud, >> legal liability, and interference with the jurisdiction of other RIRs. >> In addition, by placing the burden of proof for demonstrating a real and >> substantial connection with the ARIN region on the applicant, the amount of >> work required of ARIN staff to apply the policy will be reduced. >> The factors noted above are suggestions that an entity may use to >> demonstrate to ARIN that it is carrying on business in the ARIN region in a >> meaningful manner. These factors are all indicative, some more than others, >> that an entity has a real and substantial connection to the ARIN region >> through the carrying on of business in the ARIN region in a meaningful >> manner. Not all of the factors will apply in a given case and proving a >> single factor may not be enough to satisfy ARIN that an entity is carrying >> on business in the region in a meaningful manner. The list of factors is >> meant to be quite broad, including an open-ended factor, in order to >> capture the diversity of businesses that operate in the ARIN region and >> that may justifiably require numbered resources from ARIN. This approach is >> very similar to the practical method that courts typically apply to assess >> whether parties have a sufficient connection to a jurisdiction so as to >> require them to submit themselves to the courts of that jurisdiction. >> This draft policy is a substantial improvement over the previous version >> of ARIN-2014-1 in terms of reducing the overall risk to the community by >> requiring a real and substantial connection between an entity requesting >> resources and the ARIN region. >> _______________________________________________ >> PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > > > > _______________________________________________ > PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >
_______________________________________________ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
