Not speaking for John, but I don’t believe that would help because I believe that anything which does not meet the definition of an “end user” is de fact an ISP.
Creating a clear definition of “ISP” would likely, instead, create a new category of organizations which fit neither defined category and suddenly find themselves without any way to interact with ARIN. I would not consider that to be an improvement. It may be that adding a statement to policy that any organization which does not meet the strict definition of “End User” is therefore considered an ISP for policy purposes. Owen > On Dec 6, 2015, at 13:03 , Jose R. de la Cruz III <[email protected]> wrote: > > John: > > Thanks for the additional info. It looks like the problem brought forth in > the referenced document was never completely solved. Because an end user is > defined as "an organization receiving assignments of IP addresses exclusively > for use in its operational networks.", it is my opinion that the > "exclusively" part of the definition maybe the one creating some problems. In > the "large enterprises which may provide services to many entities of various > degrees of affiliation" example, the exclusively part of the definition > should not apply. The question is, are these organizations actively involved > in the reassigning that IP space to their customers? > > Although no formal definition for ISP is included in the policy manual, an > ISP does not fit into the end user definition. Would a definition for ISP > provide a clear guidance in thesubject? How should hosting/cloud/cdn > providers be categorized? > > José > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:43 AM, John Curran <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > On Dec 4, 2015, at 6:48 AM, Jose R. de la Cruz III <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> RE: ARIN-2015-8 >> >> 4. Should End-Users who want to be able to re-assign records simply be >> required to become ISPs? >> --->No. Why should they? >> >> 5. Should the ISP/End-User distinction be eliminated (which is a bigger >> discussion outside the scope of the current problem statement)? >> ---> No. They are different type of business entities and should be serviced >> according to their needs. > > I have no comment either way regarding the particular policy proposal under > discussion, but would like to provide some background that may aid in further > consideration of the question: > > - The distinction between “end-user” and “ISP” is very clear in many cases, > but not universally. Examples where it is less clear include university and > college systems, large enterprises which may provide services to many > entities of various degrees of affiliation (wholly-owned, partially-owned, > joint entity, business partner), hosting/cloud/cdn providers (where the line > between infrastructure and customer can be quite blurry at times), etc. > > - The desire to between ISP and End-User (or visa-versa) may be driven > by fee or policy motivations, but we have seen an increase in end-users > who wish to re-assign blocks in order to have more accurate information > in the database regarding the actual address usage, particularly with > respect to their geolocation data. > > Today ARIN tries to work with ISPs and end-users who wish to change > their categorization, but understandly we lack clear guidance for what > is becoming an increasingly blurry distinction. For additional context, > refer to the ARIN 31 Policy Experience Report (where this issue was > raised) - > https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_31/PDF/monday/nobile_policy.pdf > > <https://www.arin.net/participate/meetings/reports/ARIN_31/PDF/monday/nobile_policy.pdf> > > Thanks! > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > ARIN > > > > > _______________________________________________ > PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
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