I would agree there is nothing special about /21, that is just where we ended up at exhaustion.
It is possible this draft policy doesn't do what the community wants us to do. I wrote this draft as a followup to the policy experience report to continue the conversation about the issue and to correct the inconsistency. (Normally, I think of inconsistencies as a "bad" thing in policy) Perhaps what we really do want is a more strict interpretation of the new section 8 transfer policy? If so we need a way to signal that to staff. I'd think that could happen here on this list or at a meeting and thus no policy change is needed. Andrew On 12/4/2017 2:47 PM, David Huberman wrote: > Andrew, > > It’s unclear to me that /21 is the correct boundary, especially (as > Scott Leibrand asked for) absent statistics from the staff (if any > such stats make sense). With section 8 policy now wholly separated > from section 4 policy, I sort of think that it’s the staff who should > change their practices, and follow section 8 policy as written. > > Further to your problem statement, ISPs should NOT be applying under > section 4 anymore. We know, however, from staff reports at the recent > ARIN meeting that they still are applying. That’s a definite problem, > but it feels to me to be a different problem than what you are > tackling in this draft policy proposal. > > Happy to hear and be swayed by data or other arguments. > > David > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 4, 2017, at 4:30 PM, Andrew Dul <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> Scott, how would you feel about this proposed updated problem >> statement which focuses on the current issue rather than the past. >> >> Andrew >> >> *Problem Statement: * >> >> It was noted at the ARIN 40 Policy Experience Report, that there is >> an inconsistency in the initial block size for ISPs. Section 4.2.2 >> notes that the initial ISP block size should be /21 whereas the >> initial block size in 8.5.4 is noted as "minimum transfer size" which >> is effectively a /24. This causes ISP organizations to be approved >> for different initial block size depending on if they first apply >> apply for a transfer directly under section 8 or if they apply for a >> block under section 4. This policy is intended to clarify this >> issue, by setting a consistent ISP initial IPv4 block size. It was >> noted that ARIN staff current operational practice is to allow all >> ISPs an initial /21 for Section 8 transfers. >> >> >> >> On 11/21/2017 9:19 PM, Scott Leibrand wrote: >>> I’d be ok with a /21, but there’s nothing magical about that size in >>> a post-exhaustion world. I’d rather base a loosening on actual >>> transfer statistics, and consider doing so for both allocations and >>> assignments. >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> On Nov 21, 2017, at 7:28 PM, Andrew Dul <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> It sounds like our recollections of what we intended for ISP >>>> initial allocations have diverged. I will admit when I drafted the >>>> problem statement I did not go back through email to see if there >>>> was anything about this issue. >>>> >>>> Assuming we harmonize the problem statement, would you prefer the >>>> /24 as initial no questions asked size or a /21? >>>> >>>> What do others prefer? >>>> >>>> .Andrew >>>> >>>> On Nov 21, 2017, at 2:52 PM, Scott Leibrand >>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I believe this problem statement is incorrect, and therefore >>>>> oppose the policy proposal as-is. >>>>> >>>>> 8.5.4 was intended (by me, as one of the authors, and in PPML >>>>> discussions I just pulled up) to allow ISPs to transfer a /24 >>>>> without justification. It was *not* intended to "match the >>>>> previous policy" in 4.2.2. >>>>> >>>>> 8.5.5 reads "8.5.5. Block size >>>>> Organizations may qualify for the transfer of a larger initial >>>>> block, or an additional block, by providing documentation to ARIN >>>>> which details the use of at least 50% of the requested IPv4 block >>>>> size within 24 months. An officer of the organization shall attest >>>>> to the documentation provided to ARIN." >>>>> >>>>> The intention was that any ISP needing a /21 would need to >>>>> "provide documentation to ARIN which details the use of at least >>>>> 50% of the requested IPv4 block size within 24 months", with >>>>> officer attestation to same. >>>>> >>>>> If that policy is deemed insufficient, and we believe it's better >>>>> to allow transfers of up to /21 without providing documentation to >>>>> ARIN and officer attestation of such, then this proposal would >>>>> need to be re-written with a new problem statement justifying that. >>>>> >>>>> -Scott >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 2:40 PM, ARIN <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 16 November 2017, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) advanced >>>>> "ARIN-prop-244: Clarification of Initial Block Size for IPv4 >>>>> ISP Transfers" to Draft Policy status. >>>>> >>>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9 is below and can be found at: >>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_9.html >>>>> <https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_9.html> >>>>> >>>>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The >>>>> AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the >>>>> conformance of this draft policy with ARIN's Principles of >>>>> Internet number resource policy as stated in the Policy >>>>> Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are: >>>>> >>>>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration >>>>> * Technically Sound >>>>> * Supported by the Community >>>>> >>>>> The PDP can be found at: >>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html >>>>> <https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html> >>>>> >>>>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at: >>>>> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html >>>>> <https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html> >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Sean Hopkins >>>>> Policy Analyst >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Draft Policy ARIN-2017-9: Clarification of Initial Block Size >>>>> for IPv4 ISP Transfers >>>>> >>>>> Problem Statement: >>>>> >>>>> It was noted at the ARIN 40 Policy Experience Report, that >>>>> there is an inconsistency in the initial block size for ISPs. >>>>> Section 4.2.2 notes that the initial ISP block size should be >>>>> /21 whereas the initial block size in 8.5.4 is noted as >>>>> "minimum transfer size" which is effectively a /24. The intent >>>>> of the new 8.5.4 was to match the previous policy. This policy >>>>> is intended to clarify this issue. It was noted that ARIN >>>>> staff current operational practice is to allow ISPs an initial >>>>> /21 for Section 8 transfers. >>>>> >>>>> Policy statement: >>>>> >>>>> Add the following to 8.5.4 >>>>> >>>>> ISP organizations without direct assignments or allocations >>>>> from ARIN qualify for an initial allocation of up to a /21. >>>>> >>>>> Comments: >>>>> >>>>> a. Timetable for implementation: Immediate >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> PPML >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>). >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >>>>> Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you >>>>> experience any issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> PPML >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>). >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you >>>>> experience any issues. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you experience >> any issues.
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