Hello Mike, Why are you using John's "waiting list IPv4 blocks transferred" numbers as a baseline for the /19 numbers? This is completely arbitrary and doesn't give any scale as to the problem with fraud. See my earlier reply to John's email in the other thread:
"Thanks for sharing. I'd like to note that it can be dangerous to use the blocks transferred via 8.2/8.3/9.4 as a metric for abuse. A fraudster that gets past ARIN's scrutiny and obtains IPs with fraudulent information is probably smart enough to lease their IPs as opposed to selling the space outright. There is a huge market for leased space, and those deals happen behind closed doors with no oversight from ARIN. IP addresses go for $0.2-0.5/mo depending on term/IP reputation/size which could lead to $XX,XXX in illicit revenue with no risk of ARIN's scrutiny which would normally occur during the transfer process." Thanks, Robert Clarke > On May 29, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Fernando, > > Thanks for the discussion. > Many feel as you do, that unused addresses should be returned to ARIN for > subsequent distribution to those in need. > Unfortunately, that policy was not successful in bringing unused addresses > into actual use by those in need. > The community decided to harness the profit motive to incentive this process, > and by all accounts it is working. > > Unfortunately the profit motive also incentivizes fraudulent plundering of > the waiting list pool. > > So I am happy to discuss the correct balancing of things to prevent fraud but > allow the market to continue to drive us towards the desirable ends of > accurate registration and efficient use. > > Since the /19 is the threshold number of sorts for flipping, I could accept a > /20 as the maximum size. > I think a 2 year wait is reasonable, but I don’t see the additional benefit > as worth the distinction of ARIN space into more classes. > And making it more complicated with multiple waiting periods is even less > desirable, IMO. > > Regards, > Mike > > > > > From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fernando Frediani > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:50 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance > > On 29/05/2019 11:31, Mike Burns wrote: >> Orgs will wait out any period, sitting with unused addresses until they >> reach the resale date. Not efficient use. > If it's not a legacy resource and if ARIN gets to know about it, it may just > recover this addresses even if the resource holder is paying it correctly. > That's how it should work. >> >> >> People will lease unused addresses to others and Whois accuracy will suffer >> if they can’t resell them. Not accurate registration. > If people lease they prove they have no use for the addresses and again ARIN > should recover them at any time. If whois is inaccurate, well it is their > fault and not policies fault. They must bind to the current rules not the > other way round. >> >> >> I think we should give everybody currently on the list up to a /19 and then >> restrict new entries to a /22. > Fair to discuss this scenario, although I still think /19 is too much. Agree > on /22 for new entries. > >> I think a 5 year resale wait is too long, based on the paltry resales of >> prior waiting-list subnets smaller than /19. > It may be long, but 2 years seems a little short and 'acceptable' for a > fraudster. Perhaps something in between. > > >> I support a /22 restriction for new entrants, a /19 max for current list >> members, and maintenance of the 12 month wait for simplicity’s sake. > What about discuss /22 for new entrants, /20 for current list members and 36, > 42 or 48 months for transfers ? Seems more reasonable in my view and cover > most aspects of this discussion. > >> >> >> >> Regards, >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> >> <mailto:[email protected]> On Behalf Of Fernando Frediani >> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 8:51 AM >> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance >> >> +1 >> On 28/05/2019 23:52, Owen DeLong wrote: >>> Mike, >>> >>> Yes and no. I believe that the lack of legacy holders for any blocks issued >>> under 4.1.8 reduces the need for the market. >>> >>> Defunct organizations can easily be reclaimed in this space because they >>> stop paying their ARIN bill. >>> >>> Eliminating the resale value of these addresses won’t really encourage >>> squatting on them and limiting the size of organization and size of block >>> that can benefit from 4.1.8 further helps to reduce the potential for >>> hoarding. >>> >>> I realize that as a broker, any address that can’t be monetized is a lost >>> opportunity for your organization, but I think there’s plenty of addresses >>> out there that haven’t been processed through 4.1.8, so I don’t think >>> limiting the resale potential of such blocks to reduce fraud is a bad idea. >>> >>> Owen >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On May 28, 2019, at 12:46 , Mike Burns <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> The percentages of blocks transferred takes a significant leap at the /19 >>>> size. >>>> Below that, the percentages are all below 7%. >>>> At /19 and above, the percentages are all above 21%. >>>> Seems like a natural demarcation for maximum block size, but prices do >>>> continue to rise. >>>> While we want to fight fraud, we should still remember the underlying >>>> reasons for the Ipv4 transfer market apply to these addresses as well. >>>> That is, the market provides incentives for efficient use and accurate >>>> registration. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of John Curran >>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2019 1:53 PM >>>> To: ARIN-PPML List <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Subject: [arin-ppml] Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance >>>> Importance: High >>>> >>>> Folks - >>>> >>>> It occurred to me that it might be useful to have a quick summary of >>>> waiting list blocks issued and subsequently transferred. >>>> >>>> Attached is the distribution (count per prefix size) of all blocks that >>>> have been issued via ARIN's waiting list policy and subsequently >>>> transferred via NRPM 8.2/8.3/8.4 policy. >>>> >>>> FYI, >>>> /John >>>> >>>> John Curran >>>> President and CEO >>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> <image001.png> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> ARIN-PPML >>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>). >>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >>>> Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any >>>> issues. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> <https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> >>> Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any >>> issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
_______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
