Hi Jimmy, A few things are conflated with leasing in your comments below, including fraud, speculation and justifications. Let's forget about fraud. Fraud to obtain resources remains a transgression with any lease policy.
Justification issues are fair game, I think they merit further discussion in the context of a more specified policy. For the rest of it, in the actual world the boundary between a legitimate ISP "customer" and a lessor is blurry. If I give you a 64kbit VPN "circuit" for router management, can I let you advertise and route my IPv4 block under your ASN? Regards, Mike -----Original Message----- From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net> On Behalf Of Jimmy Hess Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2019 11:26 AM To: Scott Leibrand <scottleibr...@gmail.com> Cc: arin-ppml <arin-ppml@arin.net> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IP leasing policy (was: Waiting List IPv4 blocks transferred after issuance) On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 5:26 PM Scott Leibrand <scottleibr...@gmail.com> wrote: > (New subject line for a new topic.) > You just described a lease policy: one where leasing is not allowed. > Such a policy would have to exist to be enforced. Right now there is > no policy, so leasing is allowed because it's not prohibited. Actually not. ARIN's Policy does not have to contain a specific prohibition for every form of abuse --- The PDP describes when IP addresses can be allocated, and any intended Usage for IP resources that is not provided by an allocation policy should not get past ARIN's required reviews. An organization attempting to misrepresent to ARIN the nature of that organization and their business, the need for IP addresses, or the intended use for IP addresses and then after receiving an allocation proceeding to "leasing" IP addresses without services would be fraud. "We have no allocations but want a /22 of IP addresses, b/c we intend to open up shop and lease /24s to qualified applicants..." should Not and even pass muster under the current policies and required reviews --- ISPs should in fact be able to show through sufficient connectivity contracts, etc, that they have procured an ISP network; If they cannot, then they are not providing Internet Services, then they are not an ISP. > ISPs lease space to their customers all the time, bundled with IP connectivity. [...] No.... ISPs provide services related to global IP connectivity and allocate in the amount of IP addresses required for use with that ISP's services; the IPs are not a separate thing that an ISP may offer to others who are not current customers of their ISP business. > Hosting companies do the same. So do VPN providers. Hosting companies and VPN providers with a working network and customers to serve are ISPs; they are in the business of providing internet connectivity to "devices" that are owned or rented by external customers. > The challenge with a "no leasing allowed" policy is differentiating .... There is no need to differentiate. A re-assignment or allocation is something that ISPs do to allow a customer use of IP addresses necessary in order to have internet connectivity through that ISP's services OR to allocate a range of IP addresses to another ISP who is their customer, After the allocating ISP reviews and verifies their customer's network design and IP address justification documentation accordingly. You can tell if an organization is an ISP, and not "Leasing" IP addresses, because an ISP will only allocate or assign according to justified need respecting ARIN's required Policies and terms regarding customers required to return IP addresses and requiring and confirming that downstream customers adhere to required ARIN policies. 4.2.3.3 and 4.2.3.4 through 7* "The original ISP should allow sufficient time for the renumbering process to be completed before requiring the address space to be returned." "ISPs must require their downstream customers to adhere to the following criteria: ...". A "leasing of IPs" is a fraudulent action not authorized by the ARIN RSA which involves a holder of number resources purporting to Rent "ownership" to property they do not have --- that is, a block of IP resources as if those were a piece of property that may be retained or procured by an end user organization for speculative purposes or "in case of possible future need some down the road" without ever actually using or having a valid justification to receive/hold the IP resources. -- -JH _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.