In a message dated 6/18/03 2:03:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>But does not the practice of the subordination of the individual to the
>collective go back to ancient times, indeed to pre-historical tribal
>practice and belief?
>Fred Foldvar

in the ancient world we clearly have a good deal of subordination of the 
individual to the strongest individual or to the priest-king (the strongest 
individual?) but I'm not so clear about subordination of the individual to the 
collective.  It became an article of faith in the 19th-century that pre-historic 
humans practiced primitive communism, but I'm not sure there's much evidence to 
support that faith.  We do know that when Americans came to some of the 
pacific islands that theory said should be practicing primitive communism that they 
actually had a complex system of private property, and that Americans imposed 
primitive communism on them to force them into the "right stage of history."


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