Re: [arr] The downloading debate

Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:28:37 -0700

There is nothing which considers to be losing proportion here for any body..
Ramesh.. ur points are good in thinking, but not feasable in implementing.
 
We see this in a different way.
Now a days no manufacturer of music labels is buying CD's in india except t series who use there own CD's. Every manufacturer is importing CD from malaysia or taiwan or some south eastern  countries and also from china. Even though there are so many compamnies here which are manufacturing empty CD. I from ORG research has gone through so many companies in india who release music labels. They are importing at a mere Rs 0.75 to Rs 1.00.
 
And they are selling the end product at what price some thing Rs 125.00 for hindi and some thing around Rs 60.00 for regional. They are selling CD's to the the tune 20 lakh cd's n different format in the form of single picture CD or multipicture CD. We the ORG people has gone through the price checking of all this in a different way.
 
U said they are lesser money to music directors as they are lesser money through sales and inturn they are paying lesser money to Producer.
 
We have calculated like this..
 
1) The cost of CD --- Rs 2.00 we have increased by Rs 1.00
2) The cost of infrastructure to copy these CD Rs 5.00 per CD as it is a bulk unit
this infrstructure not one or two CD's but in lakhs or millions.
 
(it is estimated that ALL ARR rehman Alabums till now sold more than 30 millions, Actually this figure is small, we think it is double this why because music companies to show accounts this do some CD and to the black market they do more where nothing is countable. We have seen, the manufacturer says.. like this to the vendor " Once the lot changes hand it is not his reposnible"  as there wont be any bill or accountability for Music CD's.)
 
3) The cost for label creation on the cd and also on the cd case Rs 3.00 (actually it is less than Rs 1.50)
4) Buying cost it comes to Rs 5.00
 
 
If u add all it comes rs 15 add another rs 05.00 for all infracure like real estate and also the labour charges  - total is Rs 20 ( Actually it never crosses Rs 10.00 )
 
If he add some ten Rs as profit it should be in the range of Rs 30.00 at most.
 
But if u see the price of Rs 60.00 which is two times this is some what on the wronger path.
 
So I feel there is nothing wrong in downloading the MP3 from the net. When the Music copanies are doing cheating business why can't we download the music. We are not cheating rather we are sharing music just as we share books or some things (now a days wives also).. Which is different to wht they do.
 
Suggestions are good.. These suggestions are first to be followed by companies. If they decrease we are ready to buy until then it follows nothing wrong in it.
 
Srinivas
 
 
Ramesh Raghupathy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Karthik,
  You raise some interesting questions here. I hope my
efforts in joining this discussion arent misconstrued
as a 'know-it-all Taran Adarsh' answering the
questions.

> Who gets to lose when we fans download mp3s and not
> buy the original
> CDs/ Tapes? Rahman or the music label?

The way I understand it is that the producer sells the
audio rights to the music label that offers him the
'best' price.
Not buying original tapes/cds would make the music
labels undergo a loss. Consequently they'd offer a
lower price next time, and hence the producer gets
lesser from the audio sales rights. That possibly
extrapolates to music composers getting lesser from
the producers the next time.

If I'm not mistaken one recent article said that audio
sales havent been too good for the Tamil film industry
and many folks (including ARR) have reduced the rates
they charge.

> If the music label loses, will not go to Rahman
> again? Was it his
> mistake in the first place?

I guess a number of factors come to play here when a
music release turns to be a loss-
1)  The producer/ music label. Did they do their job
in generating enough publicity through media outlets
for the product?
2)  The composer. Did he/she deliver an album that the
public will like?
3) The movie. Some audio sales are said to pick up
after the movie is released. If the movie was a damp
squib then will it help in making the audio sales any
better after its release.

> Why do music labels force people to buy a CD, that
> can otherwise
> accomodate a lot more, that has only 6 tracks?
> What is stopping them from innovating simple things
> - include BGMs, comment by the composer, ... extras?

Excellent point! It would be great if we could have
those extra features like film score (BGM), comments
and such. But how many folks have completed the film
score before the date of the audio release? Isnt the
audio typically released a month before the movie is?
The movie goes to post-production status around then
and I assume thats when the score, final edits, sound
mixing... is done. ARR might have completed the film
score before the audio release date but are others
doing it that way too?

Aside from that I personally feel that much of todays
film score (am talking in general. not pinpointing
ARR) is a hodge-podge job with multiple inspirations.
I think Autograph conveniently used Horner's
Braveheart theme and a popular song (the name eludes
me at the moment but its possibly 'Every Breath You
Take'). Yuvan Shankar Raja used a nice chunk from
Ennio Morricone's Moses theme for Punnagai Poove. The
Tamil film Jithan used Joe Hisaishi's Kikujiro theme a
number of times. I guess everyone knows about Deva and
his brother ripping off Brad Fiedel's Terminator theme
not just in Baasha but also in  Bhagavathy.

Would those who compose the score want to get into
trouble when they release those on CD and leave it for
closer scrutiny? Also not all music directors compose
the BGM as well. Would the music director like to
share space with the score composer in the audio
release?

Music comments and making-of-soundtrack would be great
but are there enough interested folks for the music
companies to include that as a regular feature?
If the score is recorded at an orchestra in  US or
Europe then there are usually reuse fees to be paid to
the musicians union.
Here's a link that talks abt that in more detail-
http://tinyurl.com/cqc4c

Some of the extra features may cost money to include.
Does that offset the expenses involved with the cd
production and how much revenue they expect from it?

> I usually download mp3s and buy only cassettes - for
> two reasons. To
> play in my car and to not feel guilty
>... In the bottorrent forums that I
> usually download from,
> I was able to see nearly 700 seeds (people who have
> downloaded fully

Karthik, if you're the guy who's running the fabulous
ITwoFS then I'm disheartened to know that you're
illegally getting a higher quality product while
paying for something lower. You nail music-pirates at
your site while (I fear) you're guilty of some sort of
music piracy as well.   It defeats, in part, what
you're trying to say with ITwoFs. You blasted Sandeep
Chowta for crediting only some of his
rip-offs/inspirations in Pyar Tune Kya Kiya while he
left others uncredited. And now you're saying that you
paid for a cassette but got the mp3s for free!!

> tracks available in iTunes for 99 cents is available
> in many other
> torrents and P2Ps like soulseek/ Kazaa/ eMule, for
> free! And still
> iTunes succeeds. And how?

The success of legal paid-for downloads is largely due
to the massive crackdown on file sharing systems.
Granted that they havent caught everyone, but the RIAA
is getting there. The fines and convictions meted out
to the pirates act as a deterrent to folks who are
potential illegal-content providers. People know that
they could get into trouble for pirated mp3. 99cents
is a terrific deal compared to a lot of headache
later.

Granted that the Indian authorities havent seriously
effected a crackdown on music pirates; that audio
companies are giving us a rough deal with short music
releases on cd, but that does not in any way justify
us in downloading mp3 (illegally).
(since there arent any legal, paid-for-downloads for
indian film music AFAIK) If you have the cd, use a
free software to convert to mp3 if thats more
convenient for you. If you have a cassette, live with
it. Sorry to be so blunt, but thats the fact.

> trivia about the man. We could very well prove a
> point, if need be.
> It could be unconvetional - like the Japanese
> shoe-factory strike,
> where they worked during strikes, but produced shoes
> only for the
> left foot.

Some sort of initiative like that would be great!
Perhaps folks could get ARR to voice his opinion on
this to the music companies. I'd support Karthik's
idea of buying cassettes and boycotting cds (as long
as it doesnt mean that we get the mp3 illegally). What
do you folks think?

Thanks,
RR


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