Triply, "Vimaljk and especially Indmov Buff, yes, I think it was a little high handed to make such a blanket statement. But consider this... all Mani's masterpieces are in Tamil. Watch Aayutha Ezhuthu and Yuva back to back and see which has the Mani Ratnam touch.... it's AE. Yuva is a disappointment compared with AE. And think about it, AE is itself considered to be Mani's weaker efforts (though it is one of my favourites). Then you have Guru, which, as I already said, felt weak for me. Before this, you had Dil Se.., which underwhelmed me the first time I saw it, but as I thought more and more about it, it really stuck with me. But still, Dil Se.., after Iruvar? I just have a theory that Mani does not have that ingrained knowledge and instinct of Hindi that he has of Tamil. That ingrained knowledge and instinct is the "Mani Ratnam" touch for me. Remember Pyramid Natarajan in Alai Paayuthey? Remember Bharathiraja in AE? There aren't such characters in his Hindi movies. "
I came across this elsewhere as well- abt mani not being able to "think" in Hindi. I find that rather irrelevant and immaterial. For me, Mani thinks in "Indian". And that too in the most authentic way possible. He is a filmmaker first and does not (need to) belong to any language. That's why he is unique. How many directors are able to do this in India today? For me, the one thing that stops me from picking Yuva over AE is the casting of Ajay Devgan. You are right, Surya was great . But for me Lallan in Yuva was far superior to Inba in AE in many subtle ways. Don't get me wrong, Madhavan was great, but AB took it to another level. Although the difference was subtle, I found Lallan to be darker, heavier and slightly more entertaining than Inba. For this, I've watched yuva several times more than I've watched AE. As for Guru, it had more commercial elements than artistic ones which may have not gone down well with his usual fan following but it retained the Midas touch for me in the form of Gurukanth Desai and some very entertaining cameos- Nanaji, Meenu etc. Perhaps, Natarajan's and Bharathiraja's cameos were more striking than usual for you because of their personalities in the South. Would it have had the same effect if their roles were done by regulars? So does that mean that to a certain extent, it matters which language the audience "thinks" in? Because the comment about Mani being able to 'think' in Tamil and not Hindi interestingly comes from my Tamil speaking friends. Mani's first full fledged Hindi film was Dil Se and given that he's only 3 films old in the North (not taking Roja and Bombay into account here), I think it's far too early to write him off in the North considering that none of the three have been ordinary flicks. Doing so would be like tossing him based on Pagal Nilavu and Idaya Kovil when he started off in the South. "So, when Mani ends up making another Hindi movie, for me, I have low expectations, since I feel the Mani Ratnam touch is missing. To overcome that, he needs a powerful script with an entertaining story. That is what I want in Raavan. Will it be better in Tamil? I don't know, but I do think it would be better. (On a side note, Is it still called "Asokavanam" , or is it now "Raavan" even in Tamil? Last I remember was that there was some problem with calling it "Asokavanam" .)" As for him needing a powerful script with an entertaining story, I believe I made my opinion clear in my previous e-mail about it. His past work speaks volumes and like you I want Raavan to have a powerful script and an entertaining story, not because his past work lacked these but because with every film, he takes us to another level. The Tamil version is aptly titled Raavanan and I think the Ashokavanam contraversies were just probably the rumour-loving tabloids having a go at what theyd o best. and what's thrilling is that I really don't know which one would be better (not that one has to be). Vikram is amazing and not sure Raavanan would be Surya's cup of tea (although I must say that I would love to see him working with Mani again). I think I'd watch the Tamil version before the Hindi one purely because it's Vikram's first movie with Mani. Just that. "As for the Mani-ARR combo, I am not saying that other directors are better with ARR." Well, your first e-mail didn't make this clear. I would pick a Dil Se over a Delhi 6 and a Roja over Jodha Akbar (despite the latter in both cases being of such high calibre) and ...we live in a subjective world. Raavan and Raavanan seems to have all the reasons for a smashing soundtrack and background score. I am glad that Mani and ARR made an effort to make a distinction between Raavan and the Raavanan soundtracks by giving each of them a unique track which doesn't feature in the other. Loving the tracklist ad the choice of singers for both. And that for me is the magical Mani-ARR combo. I think (and hope) that Raavan will be the movie/soundtrack of the year. Whether it would be at the awards ceremonies,that's another story. Lost faith in these awards when Kabir Khan was awarded best actor over a Gurukanth Desai! Thanks for initiating this discussion! --- On Fri, 23/4/10, Triply R. <[email protected]> wrote: >From: Triply R. <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Hope no songs like "baazi lagaa" and "Ek lo Ek muft" >will be in Raavan >To: [email protected] >Date: Friday, 23 April, 2010, 5:24 > > >And picking up the various > threads.... > >Rawat, I really don't care to go back to SdM to tell you why I did not like >the album. I know that would disappoint you that I am just writing it off. But >I did invest a lot of time listening to the album and it somehow never stuck >with me. I felt it was disappointing because it seemed like Rahman on an off >day. I'm stepping on another landmine here, but it seemed more like the work >of Rahman who made Tenali rather than the one who made Delhi 6. It happens to >fans, especially to me. I worship Rahman, but I do not like all his work. SdM >is, for me, along with Tenali, his weakest album. It is, bad! > >Vimaljk and especially Indmov Buff, yes, I think it was a little high handed >to make such a blanket statement. But consider this... all Mani's masterpieces >are in Tamil. Watch Aayutha Ezhuthu and Yuva back > to back and see which has the Mani Ratnam touch.... it's AE. Yuva is a > disappointment compared with AE. And think about it, AE is itself considered > to be Mani's weaker efforts (though it is one of my favorites). Then you have > Guru, which, as I already said, felt weak for me. Before this, you had Dil > Se.., which underwhelmed me the first time I saw it, but as I thought more > and more about it, it really stuck with me. But still, Dil Se.., after > Iruvar? I just have a theory that Mani does not have that ingrained knowledge > and instinct of Hindi that he has of Tamil. That ingrained knowledge and > instinct is the "Mani Ratnam" touch for me. Remember Pyramid Natarajan in > Alai Paayuthey? Remember Bharathiraja in AE? There aren't such characters in > his Hindi >movies. >So, when Mani ends up making another Hindi movie, for me, I have low >expectations, since I feel the Mani Ratnam touch is > missing. To overcome that, he needs a powerful script with an entertaining > story. That is what I want in Raavan. Will it be better in Tamil? I don't > know, but I do think it would be better. (On a side note, Is it still called > "Asokavanam" , or is it now "Raavan" even in Tamil? Last I remember was that > there was some problem with calling it "Asokavanam" .) > >As for the Mani-ARR combo, I am not saying that other directors are better >with ARR. All I'm saying is that we got Jodha Akbar and Delhi 6 with other >directors but the last taste of the Mani-ARR combo was Guru, which was, I >feel, not as good as the other 2 albums I mentioned. >There was a lot of expectation, hype and hoopla that ARR was working with >Gautham Menon, and that album turned out to be amazing. I want that magic back >with ARR and Mani. I want a great movie with a great background score and > a classic soundtrack. > >And finally, I love Aayutha Ezhuthu. I love the soundtrack and the movie. I >revisit the movie at least once in 6 months. For me, that was a hat-rick of >great Mani movies, following AP and KM. With three movies that I loved so >much, it's no wonder that Guru pissed me off so much that I am wary of the >next Mani Ratnam movie!! > >Another minor grouse I have is, after Mani worked with Suriya in AE (and I >think he also dubbed for Abhishiek for the Tamil version), how can he cast >anyone else?? For me, even an actor like Vikram, who is of such high caliber, >is just miles behind the phenomenon that is Suriya! > >Feel free to disagree! > --- On Fri, 23/4/10, Gayathri Chandrakasan <[email protected]> wrote: >From: Gayathri Chandrakasan <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Hope no songs like "baazi lagaa" and "Ek lo Ek muft" >will be in Raavan >To: [email protected] >Date: Friday, 23 April, 2010, 9:04 > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >Agree whole-heartedly to all your points, Indmov Buff :) > >--- On Thu, 4/22/10, Indmov Buff <indmovb...@yahoo. com> wrote: > > >>From: Indmov Buff <indmovb...@yahoo. com> >>Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Hope no songs like "baazi lagaa" and "Ek lo Ek muft" >>will be in Raavan >>To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com >>Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 7:58 AM >> >> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>> >> >>You say : " Mani has to prove he can tell a good story with good >>presentation. " >> >> >>Wow, that's a bit high handed! >>What, with Idayathai Thirudathe, Agni Natchathiram, Naayagan, Mouna Raagam, >>Anjali, Thalapathi, Roja, Bombay, Iruvar, Dil Se, Alai Paayuthey, Kannathil >>Mutammittal, Aayutha Ezhuthu and Guru (even if you thought the last was not >>up to mark), you still think he's unable to present a "good story" well, then >>perhaps his movies are not your cup of tea and never will be. Mani in my >>opinion is the best in India. He has the >> rare talent to present artistic cinema with commercial aspects in a well >> defined package. All his subjects are very much South Asian at heart ie. >> his movies are >> not Hollywood wannabes like most rubbish these days. It's like having an >> authentic South Asian meal for moviegoers from different cultures, retaining >> the values and vibrations of what we have in our very diverse culture. And >> he's also consistently presented excellent visuals (be it in Mounda Raagam >> with PC Sreeram or Dil se with Santosh Sivan) with a fairly good eye for >> details. >> >> >>You also say >>"He has to prove that the Mani-ARR combination is the best there is" >> >> >>Not sure how many would approve here, but for me Mani brings out a dimension >>in AR that no one else is able to bring. It's like the x-factor (as cheesy as >>that sounds). Gowarikar and Mehra have done well too but they are only two >>films old. Whereas Mani is 10 films old and if one were to choose 5 all time >>favourite AR soundtracks, I am certain at least 2-3 of the Mani-ARR combo >>soundtracks will make it to most of our >> lists. Certainly mine. Check out a poll we had on t his last year- the >> figures say it all. Mani therefore has nothing to prove. >> >> >>Raavan has been my most anticipated soundtrack since Guru purely because it >>is a ARR-Mani and therefore comes with a tradition of delivering magic that >>we cannot see in another soundtrack and especially when it comes from the man >>who introduced AR to films. >> >> >>--- On Thu, 22/4/10, Triply R. <cornholiosbungholio @yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>>From: Triply R. <cornholiosbungholio @yahoo.com> >>>Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Hope no songs like "baazi lagaa" and "Ek lo Ek muft" >>>will be in Raavan >>>To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com >>>Date: Thursday, 22 April, 2010, 6:56 >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>I'd have to agree that Guru is the weakest ARR-Mani combo. I mean, let's >>>see, we have Roja, Thiruda Thiruda, Bombay, Iruvar, Dil Se, Alai Paayuthey, >>>Kannathil Mutammittal, Aayutha Ezhuthu and then you have Guru. No doubt, >>>Guru is the worst of that lot. >>>Even as a movie, I felt Guru failed to have the same impact as other Mani >>>movies. It's like one person on this group said - I tolerate Mani because of >>>Rahman! >>> >>>I think with Raavan, Mani has a lot to prove. I am really not keen on >>>watching Abhishiek and Ash in another movie together (even though they both >>>turned in brilliant performances in Guru). Mani has to prove he can tell a >>>good story with good presentation. He has to prove that the Mani-ARR >>>combination is the best there is. He has to prove entertaining again. >>> >>>Rahman has nothing to prove. He may make bad albums like Slumdog Millionare >>>and mediocre albums like Guru, but for the masterpiece that is the Delhi 6 >>>soundtrack, Rahman has a free pass to do anything for the next 10 years! And >>>when he makes albums like VtV, it's just the icing on an already excellent >>>cake! >>> >>>But, again, this is my opinion. When I say Slumdog is bad and Guru is >>>medicore and Delhi 6 is a masterpiece, it is my view. Feel free to disagree! >>> >>>--- On Thu, 4/22/10, Gayathri Chandrakasan <gayathri_ck17@ yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>>From: Gayathri Chandrakasan <gayathri_ck17@ yahoo.com> >>>>Subject: Re: [arr] Re: Hope no songs like "baazi lagaa" and "Ek lo Ek muft" >>>>will be in Raavan >>>>To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com >>>>Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 8:39 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Guru is the weakest album of Mani-ARR combo? Oh dear! It's really sad to >>>>hear such remarks from ARR's fan. Yes, one is entitled to have his/her own >>>>preferences but to say that this is the weakest album from their combo >>>>is...well, it's kinda hard to digest such comments. Barso Re, Tere Bina, Ay >>>>Hairathe, Mayya Mayya, Jaage hain were all beautiful in their own way. And >>>>I loved Ek lo Ek Moft for its naughty and unconventional presentation. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, Sathya Sundaram <satsun...@. ..> >>>>>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hope that there wont be songs like "baazi lagaa" and "Ek lo Ek muft" in >>>>>> Raavan. These were 2 terribly worst songs of ARR for a Maniratnam film. >>>>>> All the other songs were of great class. Guru is the weakest album of >>>>>> Mani-ARR combo. Hope Raavan will be a masterpiece and will be heard for >>>>>> ages. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > > >
