The problem is that ITIL is an idea, a philosophy, and remedy has gone and made it an application.
Carey mentions "Sales" and "Marketing" but surely not all people in sales all use the exact same application to do their work. You don't see all cashiers across the world use the same register, do you? If you could apply a philosophy, or a way of doing things, to an application, then OOTB solutions would be great. The root of the problem is that, while in reality ITIL is a great philosophy, there is more than one way to follow it. Making everyone use the same OOTB application in order to follow the ITIL philosophy would be like making two companies in the same industry operate their stores identically, from the layout of the store, the items carried, the prices priced, to the hardware and software used to run the business. I think the real problem with ITSM is not that it is not customizable, not that it is not flexible, not that it is hard to upgrade (all of these which are true), it is that you are trying to make thousands of companies, that while they get their jobs done using the same industry standards, work the exact same way and that will never work. ITSM is a great solution if you are a start-up company and are looking for a way to sculpt your business. However, again with the idea of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", if you are already using ITIL standards, or if you have such a level of customization that it won't be ITSM whenever you're done, then there's really no point in purchasing it or its expensive support. However, the problem is not necessarily always with the people like us realizing all of the above concepts. Whenever you have such good sales people as remedy has, and they are talking directly to the decision makers instead of to the people who have to enforce those decisions, then you'll have people purchase things because they were told "well, this is what everyone else is doing." You know, it would be nice if remedy's support staff was as good as their sales staff :-) _____ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CG/SCWOE Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 2:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: OT: ITSM Total Cost of Implementation Discussion A few points: Why upgrade to version 7 if version 5 (or any version you're currently running) is OK? Because of support. While I'm sure that if you bring Remedy (or any vendor) bags and bags of money for "Professional Support" sure, you'll get support for their deprecated version. However, if you're expecting the standard support you get just by buying the product and paying the bucks for a standard support agreement, you can forget it. And the idea of paying the bags of money defeats the purpose of using an OOTB solution to begin with. I certainly don't disagree that ITIL, implemented right, is a good thing. However, in order for it or any other business model to work, EVERYONE involved in the business from top on down must be trained on it and 100% committed to it. Here's the issue. Many top managers in the DoD have no concept of what ITIL is. A top manager just asked me yesterday, "What is that?" Management's thought process is this: "Our asset tracking sucks. We don't know what we have. Let's buy something that lets us fix that problem." The way they see it is just like what you do at tax time. You need to do your taxes, so go to CompUSA and buy TurboTax. Pull it out of the box, follow the instructions, and boom! Your taxes are done. To them, the same with asset management or help desk or change or whatever. Need an asset management solution? Buy something! Pull the CDs out of the box, read the directions, and you're done! They don't realize how high a cliff they're jumping off when they decide on a product like ITSM. Perhaps BMC should sell ITSM as an ITIL solution more so than as an asset, change, service desk solution. -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 1:42 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: OT: ITSM Total Cost of Implementation Discussion Norm, I see this problem from a few perspectives. And I think it helps to look at specific scenarios too. So let's look at a few simple observations. 1) If the business is working "just fine" then why change anything? I would include in that conversation a discussion of why upgrade anything? I think it is a false statement to say that you can not get support from BMC for ITSM v4 (even on ARS v7) today. I think it just takes more "Professional Services" than what your annual support contract would pay for. :) [ And just to be clear, your annual support pays for exactly zero hours of "Professional Services" each year. ] 2) If your business is "not working" and the higher ups want it to "work differently" then changes will be made. ( If the higher management actually have any authority to effect real change.) Now here is where it gets real sticky. If Part A of your company is working well enough to "break even" and Part B of your company is loosing money then does that mean that Part B should adopt Part A's business practices? My answer is .... it depends. :) Even if Part A is making tons of money than Part B is loosing tons of money it still may not be the best decision to re-tool Part B with Part A's practices. Sometimes it really does take a full fracture of the company to get Part B to figure out what they are doing wrong. ( Or to realise that the accounts were just cost shifting all of Part A's losses to Part B and Part B was actually making money when it does not have to share the burden that Part A was "not honestly claiming to be theirs" too.) But, again, if the management want change, then it will happen. Even if the change is for the worst in the short term. 3) Business are not all unique. (Really, they are generally very similar.) Sure, there are different types of business. (for example: Services vs Manufacturing ) And there are even different market segments and forces to be sorted out. However, once a given market matures and stabilizes there are generally "best practices" that are formed for a given market. Yes they change over time due to changing market forces, but you get the idea. The companies that stay in business making... "Bicycles" tend to do almost the same basic things. Which nets them enough money to keep doing what they have been doing. Often business that are failing will turn to their competitors to try to figure out what they are doing wrong as compared to their competitors! (Differences like that are often the definition of a "anti-best practice".) 4) In a mature business, best practices (policies/procedures) are documentable in ways that lead to common terminology. (We all call "Sales" that for a reason. Same is true for "Marketing".) And those business functions are well understood in most business markets. IT is becoming a fairly standardized part of any business. So there are bound to be good and bad practices forming for how any business should manage that part of their business. And finally... 5) ITIL is not something that BMC controls. ITIL is much bigger than any single company. It's origins and life cycle is driven by a conglomerate of business that all do "IT things" for themselves, and maybe for other companies too. 6) Choosing to use a standard today does not mean that you have to keep chasing that standard. There is nothing wrong with saying that ITIL v2 was "ok" for you, but "v3" is just silly. (Again. No reason to upgrade when things are going just fine.) 7) ITIL history lesson: + ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITIL> * Started in the 1980's. (and continually updated) * It was originally created by "Central Computer and Telecommunications Agency (CCTA) of the UK Government". To help them manage their growing IT needs/resources. * In December 2005, the OGC(Office of Government Commerce) issued notice of an ITIL refresh(ITIL v3) which is planned to be available in Spring 2007. * ITIL is often considered alongside other best practice frameworks So at the end of the day Norm. The UK government built ITIL(v1), but it was not widely adopted or considered util the 90's(v2). So I guess that in the 2000's would be about the time that some of the USA government agencies would get around to looking at it. (Just a bit of humor. :) 8) And there is always the thought that whatever you are doing (that you think it working) must be "good enough for the next guy too". However, that might not be the case in reality. It might be working just fine for you due to specific conditions that are unique to you/your business too. Or there could be a more general pattern that you have not seen in what your doing that really is a lot like what "they" are doing too. Just with a few different political/personal tweaks. So my summary is this: I think the point of ITIL is to be that "general pattern" for IT stuff. Given that 1000's of smart, effective, and successful people have spent years of their life/work to beat the general case patterns out of IT and to document them, then I can only say that if that "shoe does not fit you" that you should go join the ITIL team and tell them they are all wrong or that they missed whatever market force/unique reality that you have identified. That way ITIL v4 will be better and might help 1000's more people too. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two. On 1/26/07, Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CG/SCWOE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It comes down to a question of who should dictate your process, I think-you > or the vendor? 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