I saw it as more of a "false dilemma" type of logical fallacy. Either you gain money or lose money? While the end result could certainly be summarized as such, there are many shades of gray between the black and white conditions previously stated.
I don't think any "sane" manager would argue that standard practices and procedures are a Bad Thing(tm). I see a need for it, myself. We have low-level/technical protocols in every facet of IT - where are our high-level protocols? Is there an IT version of GAAP (General Accepted Accounting Principles), aside from "plug it in" to make it work and "reboot" if it doesn't work? Another question I have is: Are the varying degrees of "service management" implementation the result of lack of standards or are they the result of widely varying applications of IT in business? Michael -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL With all due respect, that's a fallacious argument. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, NOT THE SKEPTIC. If I claim, "I made a jet that outperforms the F-22," it is ON ME to prove it, not on Lockheed Martin to DISPROVE it. And Pat is right--all change costs money at some point in the change process. Norm -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:33 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL Prove to me how it doesn't. Don't throw out the common "Change costs money." Show me the money that it costs. Prove to me where that there is no value. Tell me where Constant Process Improvement is a bad thing. SHOW ME THE COSTS! Show me the LACK OF ROI! Don't tell me about what you have "seen" or "experienced" yourself. SHOW ME A CASE STUDY! Scott Parrish IT Prophets Original Message: ----------------- From: Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96 CS/SCCE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2007 15:35:46 -0500 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL Correct 100%. I would like to see rock-solid, irrefutable case studies that show how implementing ITIL in a mature environment saves money or delivers some other quantifiable benefit. I do NOT want to hear the old clichés: - Constant process improvement. - Better management of services and service delivery. - Improved integration of maturity models. - Enhanced process standardization. - Blah, blah, blah... No! A) Speak English and B) Show me RESULTS, not buzzwords. Show me NUMBERS! Show me the MONEY! How has ITIL made a large company more profitable?! I want to see it. I'd especially like to see how a full implementation of BMC's ITSM suite has made a sizable company more profitable. -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 3:26 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: OT -- Sort Of: Computerworld reports on ITIL ** Gary, Read the remarks and find some comfort.. Change always costs money.. and More legislation does not make a better worker... Does anyone on the list remember Cecil Lawson ? I'll bet he is not an ITIL fan... The Problem is that ITIL has now be Legislated from Congress to do it that way... Why? COMMERCE !!! The problem is the overhead on a companies manpower Really Stresses it to the Breaking Point.. With little or no Return.. I don't do processes, just because I can and because they are there... I do them because they make sense, Save money, Save time, and Energy. ITIL does none of those.. so I am against it... I am a RedNeck I guess.. Why buy a new Maserati with all the latest smog, and computers, and bells and whistles.. when a 67 Chevy will do the trick for 89K less.. Cause I can? So who is artificially stimulating the economy now? Cohen in congress with a mandate that we use ITIL.. Yeah that will save us money? Spending more always saves us money... 8-( WRONG CHANGE ALWAYS COSTS MONEY !!! The only reason we are spending more money, is because we are not content and no one is standing in the Gap to say... No. On 9/19/07, Opela, Gary L Contr OC-ALC/ITMA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ** Check out this article. I think it is about us - People resistant to ITIL, but forced into going there. I'm not resistant to ITIL, I guess, I just want an easier way to do it! http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&art icleId=9037418&pageNumber=1 <http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&art icleId=9037418&pageNumber=1> Thanks, Gary Opela, Jr Sr. Remedy Developer Leader Communications, Inc. 405 736 3211 __20060125_______________________This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ -- Patrick Zandi __20060125_______________________This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are" -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft® Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are" _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are" The information contained in this email may be privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. 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