Since my initial post on this, I was brought to attention x.finf - fast info set and the potential it may have compared to X.694 (thank you Steve Legg).
We have done a binary encoding of XML (what we call tML - not the ITU-T M.3030 though, incidently what will happen to M.3030? with ASN.1 being pushed again?) document primarily because we had bandwidth pipe of 10Mbps and suddenly we had to support transfer of those documents on links with 192Kbps! So it became a necessity to use our own binary encoding (the method we used was similar to x.finf - all infosets in the XML documents were coded/given type code). We had a receiver XML application using the DOM model, and so the received binary XML document was converted to DOM. But I thought there could be even more optimization though we never had time to explore further - one of the ideas was to skip DOM and pass the Java object to the application (which was the final outcome of DOM processing anyway). This brings back my initial question - what is the impact of all the discussion around X.694, X.FWS (and X.finf) on run-time representation or modifications to senders and receivers considering the following possibilities. A. Existing Sender with ASN.1 run-time (with pre-existing ASN.1 spec) and using XER to send information to XML App receiver B. Existing Sender with ASN.1 run-time (but ASN.1 spec derived from an XML spec using X.694) and using XER to send to XML App receiver C. Existing Sender with ASN.1 run-time but augmented to support WS. Responses are sent using SOAP-XML character representation with ASN.1 values converted to XML using XER. The Sender need to have XML run-time to process incoming SOAP requests and generate SOAP responses. D.Existing Sender with ASN.1 run-time but augmented to support FWS. Responses are sent using SOAP-ASN.1 PDUs with contents encoded using BER/PER. The Sender need to have ASN.1 run-time to generate SOAP ASN.1 PDUs and process received SOAP ASN.1 response PDUs. Plus it will need to have access to ASN.1 specification plus the original XML XSD to understand and translate a received SOAP ASN.1 response to in-memory XML representation so DOM/SAX can work transparently. (The sender need not have any XML run-time, other than access to some information derived through XML Schema->ASN.1 translation to get QNames etc. However, the receiver need to have both ASN.1 run time and XML run -time. Your views/feedback appreciated. -Manohar -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Manohar Naidu Ellanti Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 7:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ASN.1] GDMO/CMIP, WSDL-XML/SOAP-XML, FWS-ASN.1/SOAP-ASN.1 Probably I used a terminology that is new and needs some explanation. 1.WSDL-XML/SOAP-XML : Service Described/specified using WSDL+XMLSchema. The correspondence between client/server is done using SOAP messages with character-based XML representation. 2.WSDL-XML/SOAP-ASN.1 : Service Described/specified using WSDL+XMLSchema. The correspondence between client/server is done using SOAP messages using ASN.1 representation as specified in X.FWS and using BER/PER efficient encodings. 3.FWS-ASN.1/SOAP-ASN.1: Service Described/specified using ASN.1 (not yet defined but a possibility, see below my logic). The correspondence between client/server is done using SOAP messages using ASN.1 representation as specified in X.FWS and using BER/PER efficient encodings. Currently - 2 can be collectively called FWS. The purpose and benefits of 3 (where everything is ASN.1) would come from legacy ASN.1 applications that need to be retrofitted with WS features yet they need to retain their current ASN.1 implementation needs. I am not sure such legacy need exists in IT but for telecom and data com yes. A while ago JIDM group did work on interworking of CORBA and SNMP domains and specified static and interaction translation methods. There is also CORBA to WSDL translation document I have come across - I can send you reference if you are interested. Possible logic for seeing WS specified using ASN.1 rather than XML Schema as done (i.e current WSDL spec) : A F/WS is specified using WSDL, which contains data type definitions as per XML schema. Using X.694 translation rules the data types can be converted to ASN.1. However, in the future it should be possible to describe services directly using ASN.1 i.e. there could be ASN.1 version of WSDL. There is already an ASN.1 version of SOAP [X.FWS]. While WS SOAP message is transferred and hence need to be in ASN.1 form to make use of bandwidth efficient BER/PER encodings, the same is not the case with F/WS WSDL XML specification as usually it is used to generate client and server side code only. However, since it contains data type definitions and ultimately instance values of these data types are transferred, it makes sense to use ASN.1 for the service specification itself. -Manohar -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Paul Sandoz Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 3:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ASN.1] GDMO/CMIP, WSDL-XML/SOAP-XML, FWS-ASN.1/SOAP-ASN.1 Hi Steen, Steen Oluf Karlsen wrote: >>I would like to request opinions on how to map (if ever there >>would be need) GDMO/CMIP models to WSDL-XML/SOAP-XML or >>FWS-ASN.1/SOAP-ASN.1? Also, I have few questions with respect >>to some of the XML<-->ASN.1 and FWS efforts: > > > This mailing list has been silent for a long time... > when suddenly.... > > Very interesting discussion... > Somewhere underways I missed the acronym FWS-ASN.1. > What is this pls ? > FWS = Fast Web Services. Fast Web Services is the term applied to the use of ASN.1 to provide message exchanges based on a SOAP envelope and WSDL specification of services that can have a higher transaction-processing rate and less bandwidth requirements than use of a character-based XML representation. See the links for more information [1-3] for more info. Paul. [1] http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/WebServices/fastWS/ [2] http://asn1.elibel.tm.fr/xml/#fast-web-services [3] https://jwsdp.dev.java.net/fast/ -- | ? + ? = To question ----------------\ Paul Sandoz x19219 +353-1-8199219
