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What you said you have not contradicted
me, and as I said, I would consider your brother to be e a very knowledgeable
engineer and a very knowledgable and intelligent above average person, and leave
him at that.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 4:38
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient
Links with Mainland India
At 3:00 PM -0600 11/13/05, Barua25 wrote:
>I agree my
brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that way. People have different
styles of communicating. My brother assumes, >obviously incorrectly, that
we know of the many things he does. Unfortunately we don't. And thus
it is difficult for us to connect >the dots. But that is NOT his fault
:-). Having said that, I would agree that ultimately it is a matter of
both COMMUNICATING
>and
EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn, sincerely, cannot
do so by either posing challenges only and/or with a
>confrontational attitude.
A leader is
one who not only knows stuff but who has strong conviction about a certain
way things need to be done and he can communicate well his conviction to his
fellow beings so that others are convinced of his
conviction.
**** I don't know the definition of a leader. And personally I have never
felt the need for a leader to lead me and for me to follow. So I couldn't
offer my own interpretation here. I have been fortunate enough to be able to
find my own way around, and whatever I have found, served me and my family
relatively decently.
My brother is the same way, in fact much more so than me. And that is how
he inspired us.
>Everybody is willing to learn from a
leader who has strong convictions.
*** I don't know that my brother's aim in life has been to teach others.
However, I have seen many many people come to him because he is very
approachable. I suspect those who do, get something from it. But again that is
for others to judge.
>but he seems to be failing
miserably as a leader in the following respects:
**** That is for you to judge. I am not here to promote my
brother's
leadership abilities. I know that he does not go about seeking either
followers,or accolades from others, regardless of their qualities to judge who
is a leader and who is not.
>1) We have not seen his
convictions
*** As far as I know, he does not OWE anyone to bring explanations of his
convictions on a silver platter, complete with 'tamwl-paan'. Just like you
don't. Just like I don't. But it becomes apparent during conversations and
exchanges.
>2) We have not seen any explanation
of his convictions so that others are convinced.
*** Again it is for you to judge. But *I* don't need anybody's coaching
on the subject.
If a
leader assumes that others are supposed to know what he knows, then he is
not a leader. (Period). We have many knowledgeable people in Assam and
everywhere else in this world who are of no use to the public unless they
can communicate their knowledge.
Everybody
is willing to learn from a leader who has strong convictions. Till others
are convinced though, there will be strong confrontations which the
would be leader will have to overcome. Today, we say that Tarun
Gogoi or Prafulla Mahanta are not strong leaders simply because they
fail on above counts.
Frankly
speaking, from what I have seen in the net so far about your brother's
communication, he may be a very knowledgeable engineer and a very
knowledgable and intelligent above average person, but he seems to
be failing miserably as a leader in the following
respects:
1)
We have not seen his convictions (other than the fact that he supports
ULFA like many other Tom, Dick and Harry. People donot have time to listen
to Tom, Dick and Harry.)
2) We have
not seen any explanation of his convictions so that others are
convinced.
But Assam
so badly need leaders today that I would think that people are in general
would be sympathetic to hear any strong voice with
conviction
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Dilip/Dil
Deka
To: Chan
Mahanta
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
Mainland India
Nulu,
Mayur Bora, I think, is a shadow just like Bidyut Kakati.
Another impersonation. Do you have any inkling who it could be?
Dilip
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
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Hi Mayur:
I was looking forward to getting some specific answers to
all the questions I asked you about your charges of my various
'specious' arguments, about the excessive nature of my analyses, about
how Indian governance is helping reduce the rifts between the many
indigenous people-your primary concern about Assam, how you justify that
as a reason AGAINST Assam's sovereignty aspirations, so on and so
forth.
Since you failed to answer any of them other than repeat
your opinions, will it be fair for us to conclude that those were merely
your fancy words and that there was no substance to them, that you don't
know why you make those charges and comments and deliver those opinions
? And if you do not agree, will you explain why?
Yes, I will be pleased to explain the disarray in Assam's
management and how they are rooted in the dysfunctional Indian
governance. However, that is not to be construed as the people in charge
of Assam governance have no responsibility at all, like some of
our friends here assume, as soon as we discuss the Indian governmental
roots of the problems, and get all very excited. They too are
accountable.
The question however is HOW do you hold them accountable?
How do you change things? I presume you too do not like what you see.
But what is YOUR plan, and how do you see MORE of the same being better
than changes and reforms under a sovereign Assam govt.?
Many of our Markhowa ( Markin Kharkhowa) peers, with
their terribly incomplete understanding of democracy, answer that
elections provide the accountability, that hold the governments
accountable. Do they? Governments come and governments go? Does anything
change? And if nothing changes, why so?
Before I go any further I want some answers from you. I am
not about to submit myself here into your inquisition. If you ask
something, because you don't know, and if I know the answer, it will be
my pleasure a share that. But yours is a CHALLENGE, an
inquisition. Under the circumstances, I intend to hold YOU to explain
your conclusions, charges, and questions as well.
Fair deal?
>Hats off to your capability
in
understanding your brother's posts in the
right
>perspective. I don't understand his cryptic repliesmany
a time.
*** Thanks. But it seems like something salutary only to
those who are not anywhere near having any understanding of the issues
involved.
I agree my brother is often cryptic. Even I feel that
way. People have different styles of communicating. My brother assumes,
obviously incorrectly, that we know of the many things he does.
Unfortunately we don't. And thus it is difficult for us to connect the
dots. But that is NOT his fault :-). Having said that, I would agree
that ultimately it is a matter of both COMMUNICATING
and EDUCATING. But those who are trying to learn,
sincerely, cannot do so by either posing challenges only
and/or with a confrontational attitude.
Challenges are meaningless, unless the challenger also could
explain what they defend.
cm
At 10:57 PM -0800 11/12/05, mayur bora wrote:
Dear Mahanta da
Sorry for being
late in my reply. I think it is better
to accept the fact that we
disagree on almost all the
points about Assam's aspirations for
independence. I
went through your detailed response carefully
before
coming to the conclusion that your logic failed
to
convince me about its utility and applicability in
the
forseeable future. We are better off within India
than
outside it.
I am in fact eager to see how you would
like to
attribute the absolutelty unprofessional conduct
of
assam policemen to GoI (as per The Sentinel news).
This is
more or less reflected in all the state govt
departments. How do you envisage a very rosy picture
in
sovereign assam with the same kind of people 'with
complete
overhaul of the system' remains an enigma to
me? Of course it may
be due to my 'low inferential
capabilities'. Hats off to your capability
in
understanding your brother's posts in the
right
perspective. I don't understand his cryptic
replies
many a time.
A comprehensive blueprint encompassing
economic,
social, political and administrative issues
in
sovereign Assam is the first and foremost need for
a
meaningful and wider debate on the pros and cons of it
before
trying to mislead people with theoritical
rebuttal. I would
consider myself fortunate if you or
anyone of that school of
thought can share their
wisdom about any workable and practical
plan on any
one aspect (say administrative)in independent
assam
which will be much better, responsive and
accountable
than the present one. But it should not be a
vague
picture depicted till now in a highly polemical debate
on
the issue.
I hope in the larger interest of many netters,
you
will not disappoint us and share a portion (if not the
full)
of your proposed blueprint.
Bye for
now.
Mayur
--- Chan Mahanta
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi
Mayur:
>
>
> At 2:52 AM -0800 11/9/05, mayur bora
wrote:
> >Dear Mahanta da
> >
> >Here is my
response to the points you raised.
> >
> >1) The
total absence of a feeling of bonhomie and
> >camaraderie
among different people will completely
> >vitiate the
atmosphere and mutual distrust and
> >acrimony will reach its
zenith in sovereign Assam.
> You
> >can't put the blame
solely on GoI for that.
>
>
> *** But what about
your original contention that it
> IS, now that is,
> is
Assam's biggest 'weakness'? How has it gotten to
> where
it is now,
> as you see it? Under whose control and under
the
> nurturing policies
> crafted by
whom?
>
> I was hoping to give you some help by asking you
the
> question on the
> concept of 'meles' ( mlecch) , but
you did avoid it
> like the plague,
> didn't you ? I
understand however why you would not
> touch it.
>
>
GoI, incidentally, has EXPLOITED the growing rifts,
> that
developed
> only after the colonial powers, first the
British,
> and the
> subsequent, far more corrosive Indian
practices took
> over.
>
> *** I will like to ask
you, how, as an intelligent
> and informed
> observer, you
see the GoI policies helping the cause
> of preserving
>
the ethnic identities of these indigenous people of
> the
region? The
> Indian govt. created the many states,
actually
> 'dependencies', of
> the NE, by simple majority
votes of a Lok Sabha of
> 500 where the NE's
>
representation is what, less than 20 , instead of
> promoting
the
> co-operative, interdependent ethos that sustained
>
them in the
> centuries past. These states, with no means
to
> sustain themselves,
> are now abject
dependencies of a Center, showering
> them with its
>
largesse, creating an illusion they are doing well,
> but
really
> killing their culture with a Hindi/Hindu one,
>
political invasion,
> perpetuated with military
might.
>
> Is that not the bitter truth Mayur? And you
accept
> if not sing
> praises of such policies, playing
defenders of your
> indigenous
> brethrens'
culture?
>
> The only reason I would not call your intent
to
> question here, is
> because you are,I am sure, just
like so many of your
> peers, ignorant
> of the realities.
I too was so, until recently.
> Fortunately I read
> Prof.
Sanjib Baruah's book -- Durable Disorder, in
> which he
makes
> some of these issues very clear. If you are
really
> interested in
> understanding what has been going
on, you cannot not
> read the
>
book.
>
>
>
>
> >2) Let me accept for
arguments sake that I am being
> >obsequious to some system
or culture.
>
>
> *** I don't understand what you
are trying to say.
> Perhaps a simpler
> way of expressing
yourself would be more helpful for
> those of us to
> whom
English is only a second language :-). But if
> you are
suggesting
> that a Hindu culture was indeed instrumental,
thru
> the concept of
> 'meles', in causing the cultural
alienation of the
> indigenous people
> of the NE, why can't you
admit it?
>
> Why do you qualify it as merely agreeing
for
> argument's sake?
>
> Are you trying to have it
both ways?
>
>
>
>
>
> >But you
have
> >already surrendered yourself to a pernicious
belief
> >whose impact will be disastrous for the people
for
> >whom you are acting as spokesman.
>
> ***
I am a spokesperson ONLY of myself. I am not a
>
designated
> representative or spokesperson of anybody. But
that
> is not to suggest
> others don't agree with me.
Because if it were so,
> those of you who
> disagree,
would not be so wrapped up with denouncing
> my
arguments
> with fancy words, but without ever being able
to
> explain why or how.
> It is because you see my
arguments making sense and
> damaging to your
>
cause.
>
> Now what exactly do you see as MY pernicious
beliefs
> that will be destructive
> for those whose
views I might be reflecting? And HOW
> will they be
destructive?
>
> I hope you can delineate those, so we can
examine
> the substance of
> your
opinions.
>
>
>
>
> > Worse,
you have also
> >surrendered yourself to sophistry and
casuistry in
> >order to defend your specious
arguments.
>
> *** Huh? Are you dropping philosophy on me
again
> here Mayur? I told
> you I am philosophically
challenged. Your effort is
> akin to" gorur
> aagot twakar
bai-xing jwkari ghanh khai". It means
> nothing to me,
and
> I doubt to anybody else.
>
> But it will be a
different issue with my 'specious'
> arguments. What
> are
the arguments that I have been making that are
> specious (
appear
> sound but are fallacious--for those who are not
sure
> what the word
> means)? My observations of a decade
of Assam Net
> debates has been
> that no one gives me an
inch, if they can find
> something incorrect,
>
fallacious, or otherwise untenable. My esteemed
> opponents
here
> descend on me like a crow over a June bug--as
they
> would say here in
> the American heartland. The
only reason they don't
> give examples or
> explain
is because they can't.
>
> You got your challenge
for the day Mayur. Prove it.
> Explain it. And
> when you
do, I will be the first to take it back,
> eat crow. But
fancy
> words will not take your arguments
anywhere.
>
>
>
> >My servitude
>
>is not harmful for others, but yours can spell
>
havoc
> >in peoples' lives. Of course you will not be
>
affected.
> >You will probably be busy dishing out
justification
> >from your armchair for any mishap which is
bound to
> >happen.
>
>
> *** On the
contrary servitude of people like
> yourself, who less
>
fortunate people look up to, is eminently harmful to
> their
long term
> well-being. It prevents them from examining
what
> ails their
> collective lot, keeps them from
seeking better
> ways, seeking the
> reforms to their governance
they so sorely need.
>
> The fact that I am furnishing
explanations,
> clarifying issues from
>
=== message
truncated ===
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