Re: [Assam] Reforms - The CONCLUSION

[Malabika Brahma]

Santanu,

 

>>I also agree with you that hope lies in history. None of us concievably
>>imagine what the geopolitical map of the world will look like 20 or 30
>>years from now. To take advantage of historical opportunities (like
>>your third world war), one needs to have a strong civil movement at the
>>grassroot level - a cohesive nationality formation process. That is much
>>harder than armed insurrection.

 

I am in complete agreement with you. That is where I would like to differ with Mike da ("You will have to wait"). Wait for a historical miracle/accident to happen and till then we postpone all desired developmental efforts and in the process make ourselves bleed so much that we are at a point of no recovery?

 

The best option is building up a national consensus to make constitutional amendments to make India more federal whereby only defence is controlled by the Federal government.  That  is more achievable ( I am not saying desirable) than even "instrument of secession" but is not possible than creating a strong civil movement at the grassroot level and that too all over the present political India. That sure is harder than armed insurrection but with a possible outcome, whereas an armed insurrection does not have any outcome at all (except self anhilation).

 

The other option of achieving independence is ofcourse impressing upon the world powers (read US) putting pressure upon India. But we all know it is the big corporations like IBM, Microsoft that controll the US global policies and they (these Corporations) have a lot of stake in India ( read Tom Friedman's the world is flat) to go locked horns with GOI over a remotely known place called NE part  of India.

 

Utpal 


"Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Utpal:
I agree with your vision.
The way I see it - in the short run, there is almost nothing substantive that one can get the GOI to accede to in terms of effective decentralization of power or plebscite or any other adjustment to the political relationship between Delhi and Assam. The babus and polticians that run Delhi are under almost no pressure at all.
Chandan-da suggested that the pressure might come from the fact that New Delhi wants to look like a big world power and carry international prestige & it can't do that with an armed rebellion and suppression of liberty in one part of its country. I actually don't think that India has any such ambition. India want to be China in terms of international leverage. China routinely suppresses even peaceful peasant movements by brute force. International power follows from aggregate economic and military might. It does not require internal democracy or liberty. Countries like today's India, China, current Russia, Iran, Turkey are not very civil (I know I am going to be lynched for saying this)- they do not aim to project their power through moral superiority of their internal social order.
The only way a rebellion in Assam would threaten India's ascendency would be if it made India look unstable. But like Chechnya or even the Kurdish border in Turkey, Assam is almost a detached fringe of Indian society. It cannot destabilize India as of now.
As I see it, the GOI thinks of negotiations with ULFA as basically a process of waiting till the latter is ready to surrender - the only talk it wants is to check out if they are ready for that - and if that ever happens, they have a stdandard face saving formula that they will offer - bits of special powers for the state, maybe inner line permit, lots of central funds (to fatten the leaders) and a political process to return them to power in the state elections.
As I see it, the ULFA has no reason to accept such an offer at this point.
Therefore, I see no closure in sight.
I also agree with you that hope lies in history. None of us concievably imagine what the geopolitical map of the world will look like 20 or 30 years from now. To take advantage of historical opportunities (like your third world war), one needs to have a strong civil movement at the grassroot level - a cohesive nationality formation process. That is much harder than armed insurrection.
Santanu.





-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Malabika Brahma
Sent: Sat 1/14/2006 10:57 AM
To: assam@assamnet.org
Subject: Re: [Assam] Reforms - The CONCLUSION

Ram da asked some very practical questions. We all know that the GOI is controlled by politicians who gives a damn if Assam or NE bleeds to death.

Here is the fact (as stressed by Santanu )

Those who control GOI are politicians who care less for the people of Assam and NE and care less for the lives of soldiers that die in NE. So achieving independence through an armed struggle is next to impossible.

The only way independence can be achieved are:

1. By making constitutional amendment to include "instrument of secession" in Indian constitution and influencing upon the GOI to hold a plesbicite in Assam/NE and hope that majority of the people vote for secession. But this can not be achieved unless there is move to build a consensus in the National level.

2. By hoping that a 3rd world war breaks out and GOI finds it impossible to manage the present political India. Actually in my opinion 2nd world war is what helped India win its independence from the British. It became too expensive for Britain to maintain its colonies because of its involvement in the war. This again is highly unlikely.

May be Chandan da or Mike da knows some other Practical Means of achieving independence that we are missing.

That's why I think "Independence of Assam/NE is excellent to have but not possible to achieve". So why build castles in the air ?

But yes, if we can force GOI to hold a plesbicite, that will be the greatest victory. What will be the outcome of the plesbicite , is left to speculation of course.

But one thing we have to understand, for Government of India , ULFA and NDFB may not count, but for Assam and NE, they are our boys after all. When one ULFA/NDFB member gets eliminated, one of my brother or sister is getting eliminated.

Utpal

Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
C'da,

Just to keep things in prespective, this is what Priyankoo asked Himen da (to Himen da's statement)

** Do you have any plans or ideas how these people can be controlled or eliminated? If yes, then what have our previous generations been doing in the last 50 years to eliminate/ control those people?


The sins of fathers ought not to be visited upon the sons :) What Priyankoo asked is legitimate, but in the present scenario seems like he is simply passing the buck from this generation to the previous one. And of course, the previous gen is also doing the same.
So, question is how do you expect the problem/s to be solved of we keep passing the buck around, with no solution in sight?

Now, lets get to what you are asking:

> everyone cries hoarse over, but are unable to figure out how to begin dealing >with. I asked you to offer your thoughts, those of you who ASSERT vehemently >that the prevailing Indian system is adequate to deal with it, on HOW you will >begin to that.

Again, since we haven't much agreement on any of these issues (dealing with them), let us assume we the desi-bhoktos don't have any answer.

I would like to ask again of you (those who see Assam's liberation as an end to all problems):

a) How do you propose to FREE Assam from the clutches of on evil India?

We would like practical, feasible proposals. Of course, you will have to assume all the realities, like
GOI doesn't care or is inept in resolving the issue
That the GOI is willing and very capable of thwarting any move for independence simply because of its sheer might and inept/adamant ministers and bureaucrats.
and

b) How do you convince the rest of the Assamese (who want to stay with India) to join hands with you?

Now, I will definitely understand if you do not want to answer these or give vague answers.

But if you seriously think these are impossibilites, then what is the next step for Assam?
Continue with insurgency
or work within the ambit of the Indian constitution (however broken it is?).
I am eagerly awaiting a positive and practical response from you, C'da :) :)

--Ram








On 1/13/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
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> At 1:12 PM -0600 1/13/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> C'da
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> >*** That is a fine idea. And I challenged the devotees of desi-demokrasy to do just that, very pointedly, a number of times: To show how >they would proceed with effecting the reforms they see as necessary under the prevailing system.
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> Assume if you will for a moment that we 'devotees of desi-demokrasy' have no answers. But you anti-desi everything are the ones dishing out left and right about how Assam cannot prosper under 'Indian rule'
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> Ram:
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> I took one littler area: Of corruption in public life, one that everyone seems to agree on, and one that
> everyone cries hoarse over, but are unable to figure out how to begin dealing with. I asked you to offer your thoughts, those of you who ASSERT vehemently that the prevailing Indian system is adequate to deal with it, on HOW you will begin to that. I asked for no minutiae, no details--that would be unfair to ask, because we are all amateurs -- just offer a conceptual solution approach.
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> What did you come up with? What did Rajen? What did Himendra Thakur have to offer in response to
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> Fact is, if you had even anything, you would have laid it down on me like sand bags.
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> But we do know why, because you too know the real truths, but are unable to acknowledge them. Is that NOT the truth Ram?
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> What we would all like to know is how you and others intend to get Assam out from under this 'yoke'?
> Lets set aside slogans and emotions for a while, just tell us in very plain Ingrazi how do you propose in a very practical manner to free Assam? (we can get to the lofty plans for Assam post-independence)
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> And if you cannot see a way out, what is the next best step for Assam?
> Continue with the insurgency?
> or do what we can to develop Assam within the present framework.
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> If either of the above are impossible to achieve, then would a solution for Assam be to throw up our hands and declare in unison
> 'Upaai nai'
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> --Ram
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> On 1/13/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
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> At 11:35 AM -0600 1/13/06, Rajen Barua wrote:
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> >But they cannot do that under prevailing Indian rule. "
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> I think before we proceed on our debate, let us debate this. Is the above is a slogan or fact?
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> *** That is a fine idea. And I challenged the devotees of desi-demokrasy to do just that, very pointedly, a number of times: To show how they would proceed with effecting the reforms they see as necessary under the prevailing system.
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> The last time we went thru that exercise, Rajen Barua decided to play Dalai Lama and Ram went on and on, beating around the bush.
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> But the challenge remains. Put up, or you-know-what!
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> And I aim that challenge specifically to those who have lived in the USA or Britain for decades, and hopefully have, some clues, as to how democratic processes work. Those who have seen and experienced nothing but the dysfunctional desi-system, are exempt. Umesh is included. He gets an extra reprieve because he has been so disoriented.
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> ----- Original Message -----
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> From: Ram Sarangapani
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> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> Cc: ASSAMNET
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> Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 10:47 AM
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> Subject: Re: [Assam] Reforms - The CONCLUSION
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> Umesh,
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> Thats the wrong question for C'da. Look what he wrote:
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> "Question is who will take charge of such reforms, NOW? The answer is that
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> there are plenty of people, right in Assam--and outside too, to take it on. Ready, willing and able.
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> But they cannot do that under prevailing Indian rule. That is the difference."
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> So, basically what he is saying is, yes we have all the capable people who are willing and able, BUT CANNOT do so because of the "Indian Rule"
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> Obviously, what he means is that Assam will be in this state, until and unless Assam is free of India.
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> But, practical people anywhere will tell you that for Assam to get out of "Indian rule" is next to impossible. Why?
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> 1) Many Assamese itself DO NOT support independence or be outside of India. They think they are Indians.
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> 2) ULFA or others have been trying for this for 25 + years
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> 3) India will never give up an inch of its territory (inspite of various arguments and philosophies why "Indian domination" is bad/unwarranted/illegal).
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> If those are the stark realities, what would reasonable people do to make the best of a bad situation?
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> I think, they would work within this present system and try and do what they can for Assam, for its people, its development,and other problems.
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> Sometimes I think this continuing insurgency is a big money-churner for many - politicians, GOI, GOA, ULFA, businesses and bureaucrats. Many people have the potential to make it big if there is a continuing instability - and of course damn the common folks of Assam. They do not fall into any equation.
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> And, all we can say is "just you wait" :)
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> --Ram da
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> On 1/13/06, umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
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> C-da,
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> You make a valid point about urgency of reform needed in Assam and also that there are people who can and are willing to take up. Who stops them? Is someone at Delhi bent on killing them or maiming them?
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> C-da wrote:
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> "If Rajen or your assertions are accurate that Assam is the most corrupt of the various colonies of India, then it behooves it needs those reforms, NOW! The sickest needs the treatments most urgently.
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> Question is who will take charge of such reforms, NOW? The answer is that
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> there are plenty of people, right in Assam--and outside too, to take it on. Ready, willing and able.
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> But they cannot do that under prevailing Indian rule. That is the difference."
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> Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
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> Ram:
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> One last time on these issues:
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> >But you must agree that ANY reform in India or Assam MUST come from an informed >public.
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> *** Yes I do. And that is exactly why I asked for YOUR recommendations, Rajen's recommendations. But what did you show?
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> Therefore it follows that Assam cannot depend on its intelligentsia establishment, the supposedly informed lot, the one that controls the media, the economy and the political machinery -- and even its purported cream of the crop of NRA's in the west.
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> Certainly not on its uninformed, uneducated masses, struggling merely to survive against the incredible odds, while their assets, resources are being plundered and looted by India and partially being redistributed to a tiny minority of Assam's privileged.
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> But that does not mean Assam ought to wait for India to effect the reforms that it had decades to start with and demonstrate a trend. It did did not, because it cannot. Assam will have to do it for itself. Take charge of its own future!
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> You make the argument of other states prospering in spite of the dysfunctional Indian governance. And thus you demand the same from Assam.
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> It is a preposterous argument. Imagine demanding an ill-fed, poor child of illiterate parents from the slums same performance as children of IAS Babus or Engineers or Doctors because they go ,to the same school. That is exactly what you are doing.
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> Assam's circumstances are not the same as Karnataka's, or Tamil Nadu's or Bihar's. Assam must do what it needs to under its own circumstances, and not what Karnataka does or West Bengal does.
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> Assam must REFORM and RE-order its governance for its own sake, because it is essential for its survival and progress, regardless of what India does or does not.
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> And even if I were to accept your argument -- which I don't--that some Indian states are prospering in-spite of their broken governance, it still makes no sense for Assam to labor under it--because its circumstances does not give it that luxury. If Rajen or your assertions are accurate that Assam is the most corrupt of the various colonies of India, then it behooves it needs those reforms, NOW! The sickest needs the treatments most urgently.
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> Question is who will take charge of such reforms, NOW? The answer is that
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> there are plenty of people, right in Assam--and outside too, to take it on. Ready, willing and able.
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> But they cannot do that under prevailing Indian rule. That is the difference.
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> c-da
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> At 1:54 PM -0600 1/2/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
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> C'da
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> >That Ram is called accountability. It is DETERRENCE
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> I fully agree its a major component. The laws do exist for such punishment, and they would be implemented at a much faster speed if the 'public', the media and others are on top it it and expose corrupt individuals and till punishments are rendered. Jail time for those stealing public funds always existed. Politicians & the powerful have been able to thwart legal proceedings by employing corrupt practices and circumventing and undermining the system.
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> With the resent cash for questions, the media having exposed these powerful politicians, they have been expelled. The CBI and the Auditor General's office are now contemplating civil actions against the culprits. At least the national media is keeping on top of it. And things are NOT that easy for the errant Delhi politician.
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> > Remember when ULFA executed a few of those officials how Assam was all agog?. And I was >told -- it is second hand info, I was not there -- that there was a visible reduction of demands for >bribes and such
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> Probably so, and goo too - but it didn't last long, did it? As soon as people found out that all the ULFA was trying to do was corner the market on thieving. All that did was replace the regular thieves with the 'patroitic' thieves for a while, till people found out the extent of their patriotism.
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> But more importantly - even murdering a few corrupt did nothing to DETER corruption on a permanent basis, did it?
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> >Undertake a major reform of the laws of the land. Throw most of them out.
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> Good suggestion. Agreed. But do you also think such demands must come from a population who is uder the yoke? Why would you assume the corrupt to take it upon themselves to undertake such reforms and in the process kill the golden goose?
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> Why can't the AASU, and the other various student bodies and the opposition and even ULFA make sure the corrupt get the message and in strong terms - or else. Where are these patriots when we need them? Why can't Assam's intellectuals and writers fill up the media with stories of corrupt and paste the photos of corrupt politicians and bureaucrats?
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> Could you guess why nobody is interested?
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> >Reform the court systems. Decentralize them. Give powers to resolve disputes to local bodies. >Let simple issues be decided according to traditional ways. Dispose of pending cases
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> >and make sure cases get heard and resolved in a reasonable time frame.
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> Again, a very good suggestion, I am all for it. Who will do the reforming? And why should there be any reform without suggestions coming from a silent population?
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> >And make sure politicians cannot order them around-- by making the EXECUTIVE branch >INDEPENDENT of the legislative - the elected cadres.
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> I have got to hand it to C'da - you are at your best, and that too all this without demands for independence.
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> It is indeed a great idea. But you must agree that ANY reform in India or Assam MUST come from an informed public. A public that makes sure it is not a part of the problem, a public that has a long-term memory, a public that will not take it lying down, and a public that is willing to take to task by employing the media, public interest lawsuits, the voting machines and other forms of protests.
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> The biggest fear of a politician is keeping the 'gadhi' and reelection. If the gadhi is at stake for small crimes, they sure as heck will become squeaky clean, real fast.
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> >I am sorry to say this Ram: Your advice on this matter has no use for Assam, or India.
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> Heh! heh! heh! C'da - what can I say, that is the best I can give - even on good days :)
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> --Ram
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> On 1/2/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
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> Ram,
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> You repeated a whole bunch of vague generalities, hoping for some miracle to change attitudes. You did not have a single practical, achievable means to suggest, like a functioning governmental system MUST have.
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> Let me give you another clue: What is happening to Tom DeLay? And what happened to that very powerful Rep. Dan Rostenskowski of Chicago? Or the Governor of Connecticut last year? If you don't know, the latter two are in prison. Why? Corruption in office.
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> That Ram is called accountability. It is DETERRENCE. Accountability brings deterrence. Indian governance has no means for holding anyone accountable. There is no deterrence. Even if an official is prosecuted, he would live happily ever after knowing that he can keep delaying any action, even if it gets heard in his lifetime, until he is long gone.

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