Quite good and ends with a +ve note. She is free to beleive what she wants and follow the faith she likes because thats how a democratic society works.
Rgds, SD ----- Original Message ---- From: Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 3:30:53 AM Subject: Re: [Assam] Assamese Fears and Saviours http://www.sacw.net/Gujarat2002/BinaSr_130804.html Came across this piece about the Indian Democracy. At first I thoght C'da had written it - but no, it was someone else :) --Ram On 11/17/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Sandip Dutta: Good to receive your response. Also am glad that you saw some of my posts. The idea is to promote a meaningful dialogue/discussion. I will be the first to admit that my assessments, opinions and analyses could be entirely wrong or without any substance. But it needs to be pointed out how or why. Anyone can dispense an opinion or verdict. But it has to be substantiated with ordinary logic to be persuasive. After all, when we post something we are trying to persuade others, right? With that introduction, allow me to respond to your note: >Your favourite root cause of all evils seems to be the "dysfunctional desi >>demokrasy" *** I never presented the dysfunctional desi-demokrasy as the root cause of anything at all. I could not if I wished to. The dysfunctional sate of desi-demokrasy is a RESULT, a symptom and not A or THE cause, much less 'the root cause'. >Actually this sort of a sweeping banishment is akin to blaming global warming >>for the failure of GMC to supply clean and hygenic drinking water for the >last >30 years. *** On the basis of the above, this statement is entirely irrelevant and has no connection with the subject of discussion. >his "desi demokrasy" actually works quite well in many states other than Assam >>and a few other states. *** Okkay!. I will go along with your assertion here. If it is for a fact, will you kindly share what you based this opinion on, in reference to the subject that led to this discussion? HOW exactly has desi-demokrasy been effectively utilized by states like Bengal, or Maharashtra or who-have-you to mitigate illegal B'deshi immigration to their states to alleviate their INSECURITIES? But if you have trouble doing it in this context, you are welcome to choose any other issue, considered a PROBLEM by these states or societies, and HOW their people utilized desi-democratic or REAL democratic principles of governance to resolve them? >The idea is to make it work rather than wait for others to come and make it >>work for you. *** I would agree here. Question is HOW? Functioning democracies have functioning institutions of state, which they use as the tools, to fix what is broken; to resolve problems their societies face. Now let us not forget that a society's govt. does not have to be DEMOCRATIC at all to be effective. It could be a monarchy, it could be a dictatorship, it could even be anarchy. But we know that so far, a democratic system has been proven to be the most desirable. But just because a system is touted to be DEMOCRATIC, either for show or even for a fact, it does NOT guarantee effectiveness. It is merely means to an end. That is why, those of you who wave India's democratic arrangements as the ANSWER, as the END, remain clueless about what to do to turn things around.That is why Rajkhowa's rants are thoroughly meaningless. If you look up today's AT on the web, you will see President Kalam bemoaning Indian society's terrible corruption that has 'pervaded every sphere of life', as HE states it. I could almost have sworn he has been reading my Assamnet posts dating back 12 years or so for using those exact words :-). If desi-demokrasy is functional, WHY has India's fifty plus years of independent 'democratic' governance is not only NOT getting any better, but has been on a relentless downward spiral? How would you reconcile YOUR assertion here, with what Prez. Kalam is saying? >If you cannot make your own people comply with the laws, then you cannot blame >>the laws. *** WHO is blaming the LAWS? Laws are tools, means to ends -- but not ends unto themselves, are they? India has far too many laws, but what good have they done for society? And if they haven't, WHY? What is WRONG? Oh, I know there are many who would tell us that the 'people are bad'. You just told us that too. That the Biharis and the Assamese are inept, and bad; unlike Bengalis, Keralites, Karnatakis and and Maharashtrian. But that is a profoundly SIMPLE-MINDED assessment that informed, thinking people don't make. Now then, what is the problem and where? I have my views and assessments, which I have written about in this forum a hundred times. But I will do so again, IF you want to learn more about them. I won't TELL you. But I will help you find YOUR OWN answers, if you wish to pursue it further. Unfortunately, most people are NOT QUITE UP TO treading this ground. Once the question and answer sessions begin to tell the real story, they realize what is going on, they disappear from the scene or go silent. That means only one thing: That they are unable to reconcile their misbegotten perceptions and pre-conceived opinions with the reality. But that does not take anyone anywhere. Best to you. cm At 3:43 AM -0800 11/17/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote: Dear Sri Mahanta, I have been reading your posts for some time. Your favourite root cause of all evils seems to be the "dysfunctional desi demokrasy". Actually this sort of a sweeping banishment is akin to blaming global warming for the failure of GMC to supply clean and hygenic drinking water for the last 30 years. This "desi demokrasy" actually works quite well in many states other than Assam and a few other states. The idea is to make it work rather than wait for others to come and make it work for you. Democracy, even desi, is not disfunctional. Instead, its custodians in various states are the disfunctional ones in varying degrees. Good examples would be Assam and Bihar. If you cannot make your own people comply with the laws, then you cannot blame the laws. Compare this with Kerala, Karnataka or Maharashtra or even our neighbour West Bengal who firmly beleive in the same "demokrasy" and yet do much better than Assam. Rgds, SD ----- Original Message ---- From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: s hazarika < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Chan Mahanta < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:57:47 AM Subject: Re: Assamese Fears and Saviours H: At 12:40 PM +0530 11/15/06, s hazarika wrote: Mahanta; I knew you would not keep quiet. *** You read me like an open book. Question is if it was welcome or unwelcome :-)? In management, we are told that there cannot be right or wrong answers. *** I am ignorant of 'management' principles. Besides I am plagued by a long held belief that 'management' is also a foil, a respectable cover, for not so respectable 'manipulation', among other things. That is why it is hard for me to swallow the line in its entirety, even though I can imagine there could be some truth in it, under some circumstances. When things are not happening the way they should happen, we must try to find out WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? We must be able to distinguish between a problem and the manifestation of a problem. The manifestation of a problem should not be construed by us as the problem. *** I can agree with that. Those of us who have to go by our home-grown wits, would call it going beyond attempting to treat the symptoms and deal with the root cause/s. Like the Assam insurgency for a glaring example. Bangladeshis in Assam is the problem or a manifestation of a problem that lies elsewhere? How much informed debates have taken place on the issue and how much of the debates have been based on prejudgement of the issue, without adequate home work, undewrstanding of the problem or the ground realities? How many of those who show concern have read Sanjoy Hazarika's book? *** I can't speak of Hazarika's book, but I sure have read informed and thoughtful discussions of the problem right here in Assam net. But of course those are thoroughly ignored and buried by the cacophony of the lungi-menace wavers, trishul-wielders ,invader-invokers and insecurity-analyst Babus and news-paper editors and columnists. Mahanta: you ask what is the solution to the problem? I wish there was an easy cut and dried answer. But let us make honest attempts instead of airing platitudes. *** Here I am firmly with you. I also am acutely aware of the complexity of the problem and the unavailability of simple solutions that would satisfy simple-minded people. But completely without answers it is NOT. There are a number of measures that will have to be undertaken to deal with it in many fronts, and not a moment too soon. However the kind of hot-air blown by the Sentinel or by ex-Chief Secys. like Rajkhowa or Bamun-bigots and BJP-B'deshi-baiters are not among them. Just as the tongue-tied, see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, Congresswallas' vote-banking vices are not. Question is who will bell the cat? Who will begin to implement those measures that are direly needed ? There-in lies the problem with the dysfunctional desi-demokrasy that you all are dedicated to, but which cannot deliver. Never did and never will in its present form. m Shgantikam hazarika ----- Original Message ----- From: Chan Mahanta To: Shantikam Hazarika Cc: SANDIP DUTTA ; [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours O' Hazarika: At 11:57 PM +0530 11/14/06, Shantikam Hazarika wrote: Exuses are galore. If the chief executive of the state cannot solve the state's problems, who can? Me? *** Bhal prosno korise. You ask a good question. I am with you here. I feel i have contrubuted what has been within my capacity and therefroe I think i have the right to question others. *** Again I agree. But having said all that, allow me to ask Sri Dutta and you too: WHAT is the solution to the problem? And what is Sri Rajkhowa's solution? Or for that matter all the others who have been crying hoarse over the lungi menace for decades on end--what is their solution? *** If as Sri Dutta speculates :"---It could be that he did try to do a few things but then the question is whether he got any support from his political bosses and the rudderless pressure groups. " What are Sri Dutta's recommendations to get those 'political bosses' and 'rudderless pressure groups ' in line, so that the Chief Secys like the Rajkhowas of Assam can perform their duties and SOLVE the problem? And if it is NOT their responsibility, then help them get their courage together to say aloud at least WHOSE responsibility it is. Funny thing is that I am YET to see anyone who has the b---s to say it like it is, never mind Rajkhowa, never mind Dutta, never mind all the other Kharkhowa Indians! *** I have this uncanny feeling that those who look at the lungi-menace as Assam's only or the most significant problem, are people whose visions are damaged by religious bigotries, even if they had any to begin with. All they are capable of is moaning and groaning, bereft of the ability to analyze the problem and looking at achievable solutions. Just like most things Indian, they think crying about something is the same thing as doing something about it! Best. cm Shantikam hazarika ----- Original Message ----- From: "SANDIP DUTTA" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours Its not a question of what he didn't do. It could be that he did try to do a few things but then the question is whether he got any support from his political bosses and the rudderless pressure groups. There are many here who would question the actions of others without really having contributed anything concrete themselves. Rgds, SD __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (19) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! 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