Dear Sondon Da,
Thanks for the thoughtful words. However before posing the question on
whether Hindus dont care about other hindus, my question to you is: DO YOU
CARE?
On this particular context of the alleged harrasment of Bangladeshi
Hindus, I remember seeing you saying in some post some time back that they
deserve what they get.
I'm not sure if you are an expert on the subject of the Two Nation theory
but I have reason to beleive that this is the cause of this harrasment thats
being played out even sixty years later.
Lastly - we cannot dismiss deep rooted caste prejudices as "impotence" of
the constitution. While your American constitution also promises you
deliverance in a free and fair society, it still has a long way to go
before it can get there.
My heart goes out to the black victims of Hurricance Katrina.
Rgds,
Sandip
----- Original Message ----
From: " [EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Ram Sarangapani < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:16:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Covert Genocide Of Hindus In Bangladesh
Ram:
>I believe most of the Hindu targets have been other Hindus - usually
lower castes, and in the >South the Upper Castes by other Hindus..
*** We have been vaguely aware of the former problem, haven't we? Glad to
see you made that abundantly clear. Would help those who go about wearing
that cloak of Hindu victimhood.
I was however unaware of the latter: Of the victimhood of the upper castes
in the South. While it is deplorable and worthy of sympathy, somehow it is
hard to imagine their plight, in light of widely
visible power of the upper-castes that rule not merely the south but all
over India.
And in all of the above, the impotence of the Indian constitution, its
promises to secularism in public life and the inability of Indian democracy
in upholding those promises.
>> IMHO - the strength of Hinduism doesn't lie on such grounds. Rather, it
lies
> in deep-rooted concerns for humanity in general, Words/phrases like
Ahimsa,
> Brahmacharya (self-Control), Satyam,* *'Satyam e jayte' and of our
immediate
> surroundings in particular.
*** I will not argue your assertion. I just wished they were validated by
Sandip's charge and its implications and your own illustrations. The
question in my mind continues to linger: In spite of all those lovely and
highly evolved thoiughts, somehow, they never translated to the flock's
commitments to their fellow men. In that the proof could not be found in the
pudding, could it ?
>> I do believe the Hindu identity is being dissolved to great extent.
That is
> because of the religion's capacity to accommodate extreme belief systems
> under one umbrella.
*** This too leaves me bafgfled . I can't seem to connect the purported
cause to the described effect :-).
c-da
---- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> C'da
>
> You do bring up some good points - I had rather dealt with the subject a
bit
> superficially, one might say.
>
> But lets take what you say here:
>
>
> On 5/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Ram:
> >
> > To keep things contextual, let us go back to the subject matter:
Regarding
> > it being unfashionable to care about pilght of Hindus.
>
>
> >If Hindus are persecuted because of their religious identity or
prferences
> or >practices, but their plight is iognored EVEN by other Hindus, on
account
> of it >not being fashionable
>
> While there have been instances (Afganisthan under the Taliban),
Bangladesh
> & Pakistan where Hindus were actively persecuted and Fiji (where I
believe
> the issue is "Indians" as opposed to "Hindus), I believe most of the
Hindu
> targets have been other Hindus - usually lower castes, and in the South
the
> Upper Castes by other Hindus.. Even in Sri Lanka - the bone of
contention is
> language as opposed to religion (it may play some role there too).
>
> >that would cast a deep shadow of doubt about the strength of the
HInduness
> of >ALL concerned.
>
> IMHO - the strength of Hinduism doesn't lie on such grounds. Rather, it
lies
> in deep-rooted concerns for humanity in general, Words/phrases like
Ahimsa,
> Brahmacharya (self-Control), Satyam,* *'Satyam e jayte' and of our
immediate
> surroundings in particular.
> On the contrary, many Hindus possess an unshakeable inner strength that
has
> both the ingredients of helping others (even across religious barriers),
and
> at the same time keeping their often (viewed as) awkward practices
alive.
>
> >If they do, whart would that tell us about the intellectual foundations
> that define >what it is being referred to as the Hindu identity? Is it
an
> identity at all?
>
> I do believe the Hindu identity is being dissolved to great extent. That
is
> because of the religion's capacity to accommodate extreme belief systems
> under one umbrella. Further, entry into the religion is nearly always
> difficult - ie. one has to be born into the religion. There have been
some
> who say no - but generally, it ain' so. Another reason why its identity
is
> depleting is because of conversions (forced and otherwise).
> I would venture that the Hindu philosophy and intellectual foundations
are
> strong as ever
>
> Well, thats my take - I am sure there are a number of Hindu
intellectuals on
> the net who can give it ago. But I just go by what I know, and the
little
> reading on the subject.
>
> --Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Critiquing is one thing. But the subject under discussion is a whole
lot
> > more serious. If Hindus are persecuted because of their religious
identity
> > or prferences or practices, but their plight is iognored, EVEN by
other
> > Hindus, on account of it not being fashionable ( a superficial trait
by all
> > considerations) as charged by Sandip; that would cast a deep shadow of
doubt
> > about the strength of the HInduness of ALL concerned. Or at least it
would
> > seriously DAMAGE the humanity of those other Hindus who would not care
about
> > their fellow Hindus' plight. Forget about others.
> >
> > If there is truth to the charge, how can you explain that Ram? Does it
> > mean that the Hindu identity therefore is not necessarily a reliable
bond?
> > That one Hindu does not necessarily care about the plight of another
Hindu?
> > If so would they care about another fellow human? Or that would or
could be
> > different if it were somebody these Hindus might conside more worthy
of
> > consideration, because it might win them notice ( fashionable) if they
did?
> > For example one of these Hindus may not care about the plight of a
fellow
> > Hindu's religious persecution, but may be perfectly willing to raise
their
> > voices against the plight of a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Christian or
an
> > animist or even an atheist?
> >
> > If they do, whart would that tell us about the intellectual
foundations
> > that define what it is being referred to as the Hindu identity? Is it
an
> > identity at all?
> >
> > If Sandip's charge has merit, it would bring the quality of the Hindu
> > faith into serious question, wouldn't it?
> >
> > c-da
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > C'da
> > >
> > > While I don't know what exactly VP meant by "fashionable", this much
is
> > true
> > > through: It is very easy to critique and often ignore Hinduism -
Hindus
> > do
> > > it themselves too. Few other religions can critique themselves so
> > freely.
> > >
> > > One reason could be that Hinduism represents a wide spectrum of
people.
> > On
> > > the one one end you may have a group whose belief systems are
strict,
> > while
> > > on the other you may some North American guru khuwa bamuns.
> > >
> > > Further, Hinduism is a practice full of holes (if one wants to view
it
> > that
> > > way) and any passer by can take pot-shots with probably little or no
> > > reprisals. You can draw cartoons of any of the million Hindu Gods,
write
> > > against them, and and very little will happen.
> > >
> > > While other religions also have problems in their beliefs, one has
to
> > tread
> > > lightly so as not step on toes - lest you lose your head :)
> > >
> > > Lastly, the religion, is mostly very 'personal' - so it may come
down to
> > '
> > > as long as you don't disturb or insult my "singular" practice, I
really
> > > don't care what you say'.
> > >
> > > And hence the "fashion" statement by VP
> > >
> > > Just my thoughts.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >> No one gives a s**t because its not fashionable to side with
Hindus
> > > > anywhere - be it >Bangladesh or Fiji.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *** Very interesting. Did't realize it is fashion conciousness
that
> > drive
> > > > people to care about others.
> > > >
> > > > But if it is the truth, WHY is it FASHIONABLE to ignore Hindus?
> > > >
> > > > There must be some plausible reasons for it. What could those be?
> > > >
> > > > cm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---- SANDIP DUTTA < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > No one gives a s**t because its not fashionable to side with
Hindus
> > > > anywhere - be it Bangladesh or Fiji.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rgds,
> > > > > SD
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > From: Pradip Kumar Datta < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected];
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 2:18:42 PM
> > > > > Subject: [Assam] Covert Genocide Of Hindus In Bangladesh
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Covert Genocide Of Hindus In Bangladesh
> > > > > Author: Narain Kataria
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A delegation comprising of Jiten Roy, Ph.D., President, and
Bidyut
> > > > Sarkar, General Secretary, respectively, of International
Federation
> > of
> > > > Bangladeshi Hindus & Friends, Mohini Sarin, a Human Rights
Activist,
> > Dr.
> > > > Narinder Kukar, former National President of the Association of
> > Indians in
> > > > America and N. Kataria, Founder of Indian American Intellectuals
> > Forum,
> > > > called on Deputy Ambassador, Indian Mission, Mr. A. Gopinathan, at
New
> > York
> > > > on January 20, and presented to him a memorandum documenting the
> > pitiable
> > > > plight of Hindus who are being subjected to relentless torture,
> > ghastly
> > > > murder, gang rape and forcible conversion to Islam. The memorandum
> > urged the
> > > > Indian Mission at U.N. to take up this matter seriously with the
> > > > Government of India and find a permanent solution to the state
> > sponsored
> > > > campaign aimed at ethnic-cleansing of Hindus in Bangladesh.
> > > > > The memorandum, inter alia, stated that Bangladesh, where 11,000
of
> > its
> > > > 64, 000 madrassas are constantly producing jihadis, "has become a
safe
> > haven
> > > > for Islamic terrorists - - including Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters
> > fresh off
> > > > the boat from Afghanistan. " (The Time Asia Magazine Oct. 16, '02;
Far
> > > > Eastern Economic Review (April 4,2002); The Wall Street Journal
April
> > 2'02);
> > > > Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism/ US Department of
> > State, May
> > > > 21, 2002; Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2001:
> > Bangladesh,
> > > > March 2002) Time Asia Magazine, CNNews (Dec. 21, '01) New York
Times
> > (Nov.
> > > > 27, '01) etc. In the past one and half years, ever since the
ruling
> > > > coalition of "Islamic hardliners" (The Guardian, Oct. 2, '01)
assumed
> > power
> > > > with an absolute majority, the Islamic extremists have gained
enormous
> > > > strength demonstrating that they are capable of enacting several
> > Balies, if
> > > > not 9/11s.
> > > > > Earlier, using the Babri Mosque incident as a ploy to teach
Hindus a
> > > > befitting lesson, Jehadis had killed 15 Hindus, raped 2600 Hindu
> > women,
> > > > razed 3,600 temples and rendered 200,000 Hindus homeless.
> > > > > Militant Islamists have looted, razed and in many cases set
ablaze
> > > > dwelling houses, businesses, temples, imposed infidel protection
tax,
> > > > gang/mass raped [ e.g. nearly 200 Hindu women were mass raped by
the
> > > > Muslims in Char Fashion in a single night (The Daily Star, Nov 16,
> > 2001);
> > > > mother and eight-year-old daughter were gang-raped together
subjecting
> > the
> > > > helpless father/husband to watch such ghastly scene], brutally
> > tortured,
> > > > murdered, and left with the ultimatum:" Go to India, where you
rightly
> > > > belong." Incidents of rape remain generally underreported because
of
> > the
> > > > stigma attached to it, yet among the 228 rape cases reported
within
> > the day
> > > > of election 225 or 98.68 % of the rape victims were Hindus and the
> > > > perpetrators belonged to the ruling parties (see, e.g., The Daily
> > > > Janakantha, Feb. 17, '02). When the victims of rape approach the
> > police
> > > > station to press charges against the gang of rapists, the
commanding
> > > > officers not only refuse to accept their cases but in some cases
> > > > > also persecute the victim by detaining them in the precinct
lockup
> > > > (see, e.g., The Daily Janakantha, Feb. 17, '2).
> > > > > As a result of the above-mentioned systematic persecution, Hindu
> > > > population in Bangladesh has decreased from 35% in 1947 to 10% in
2003
> > > > > Hence, the Hindus of Bangladesh have no other alternative but to
> > demand
> > > > a permanent solution of this problem, by creating a protected
region.
> > If the
> > > > Bosnian Muslims. East Timorese Christians, Srilankan Tamils, Iraqi
> > Kurds
> > > > deserve international attention, the Bangladeshi Hindus, 25
million of
> > whose
> > > > people have been driven out of the country and 2.5 million acres
of
> > whose
> > > > land confiscated, deserve help find a permanent solution to their
> > problem,
> > > > too. Such a solution can never be achieved unless India
intervenes,
> > like it
> > > > did in 1971
> > > > > Narain Kataria
> > > > > 41-67 Judge Street (5P)
> > > > > Elmhurst, New York 11373
> > > > > (718) 478-5735
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Building a website is a piece of cake.
> > > > > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
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