At 9:19 AM -0600 7/24/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
The intial "gripe" was the method of garnering votes, but as
expected, the argument invariably goes to whether successive
governments have brought change.
*** Aah yes! No fair. If only people could stick to the parts of the
issues that are helpful to advance one's own political/religious/or
ideological agenda, we could get a whole lot more done, couldn't we
:-)?
But as thinking people should we NOT ask that question? Are they NOT related?
It should not cause any discomfiture if an acceptable answer could be
found, should it?
If we look at the first part about busing voters to the booth
(basically influencing or buying votes), that kind of thing happens
everywhere. It is more sophisticated in the US. In the past
presidential election, there were many churches that played a vital
role in basically influencing their flocks to vote the "Christian
way".
But in the end - the voter decides both in India as well as the US.
*** Yes indeed, the voter does decide! But WHAT? How do Indian
voters' actions have helped advance their causes? It has nothing to
do with what US voters do or how they do it, UNLESS we also compare
its results. Is the US rudderless, stuck in a quagmire like India is?
Just look at the recent cause of consternation--the state of the
'policiary' and the ToI piece I posted yesterday. Was it a deep
dark Indian secret, heretofore unknown to mere mortals, until their
supreme lordships, educated from having read the papers, let it be
known? Question is what will come of it? I know *I* , unlike
desi-seers, cannot predict the future, but based on past experience
and present plans we can make some informed conjectures, couldn't
we? What would that be?
The fact is, that the US is not the standard by which India needs to
operate. It needs to operate in ways to help advance its causes,
under its own circumstances and responding to its needs.
Like two hard-line right wingers , one from the US -- Jonah Godberg,
and one from India - Arun Shourie, finally have realized that
elections are merely a process for selecting the crew to run the ship
of state. But if it chooses an incompetent, or ill-equipped crew and
the ship's hull leaks or the sails are tattered, that ship won't be
going any place any time soon.
>Right!. And who is going to educate them in the art of voting on issues.
>There are several choices, offhand. Install a dictator (or a bunch
of people with firepower). They can >dictate how people ought to
vote.
Or, we could send over a couple of friends from around here. They
could teach those caste-ridden >Indians to replace caste with
Christian (moral) values. :) :)
*** Are these the best choices we can imagine? If so that would
place the finger of responsibility right there: That those who are
expected to be ABLE, the ranks of the best of desi-intelligentsia as
represented by its NRI standard bearers , are obviously clueless and
the resulting state of affairs.
Or perhaps that is not really the case, that they really are NOT
clueless, but are apathetic, uninvolved and dogged by a sense of
failures over generations.
Or they can't care less, as long as they can take care of their own
needs and wave that to the world to get a little respect, never mind
what happens to the rest.
Or perhaps other reasons?
Lastly, C'da, the intelligentsia do vote. Or else, how do you
account for changes in Govt?
*** OK Ram, if you insist :-)! What would I know? But what I posted
is a very widely known and accepted fact. If you do a bit of due
diligence, you too will find what I only repeated.
Changes would happen faster, if there wern't a some groups who
seem more interested in tearing >down whatever foundations of
democracy that exist right now (for their own personal/political
agenda) >than building a stronger India.
*** I see! So changes are thwarted by them terrorists, is it? Tsk,
tsk! How terrible!!
But from what I hear, it is the other way round Ram: That those who
seek to get the heck out from Indian
controls are, for one reason, because they have had it up-to here
with Indian misrule, of remaining mired in its own excreta, unable to
change.
>*** Indian voting, by and large is a matter of festivities, of a
holiday in the town for the rural voters, who
>rarely go vote on ISSUES, but do so to elect the candidates of
their CASTE, or on the promises that are made, >almost always never
kept. And the intelligentsia hardly go vote, since they know it is
a joke.
Right!. And who is going to educate them in the art of voting on issues.
There are several choices, offhand. Install a dictator (or a bunch
of people with firepower). They can dictate how people ought to vote.
Or, we could send over a couple of friends from around here. They
could teach those caste-ridden Indians to replace caste with
Christian (moral) values. :) :)
Lastly, C'da, the intelligentsia do vote. Or else, how do you
account for changes in Govt?
>*** So has CHANGE happened? That is the real test here, isn't it ?
Changes would happen faster, if there wern't a some groups who
seem more interested in tearing down whatever foundations of
democracy that exist right now (for their own personal/political
agenda) than building a stronger India.
--Ram
On 7/24/07, Chan Mahanta
<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The issue here is not MY disdain, but the failure of India's
intelligentsia and its representatives abroad, whose biggest
achievement is holding up the facade of 'Indian democracy' to the
world, while its substance is little more than an Indian myth.
>The manner in which Indian voters have voted out incumbents and
brought in new governments >several times, with the hope that things
will change -
*** So has CHANGE happened? That is the real test here, isn't it ?
*** Indian voting, by and large is a matter of festivities, of a
holiday in the town for the rural voters, who
rarely go vote on ISSUES, but do so to elect the candidates of their
CASTE, or on the promises that are made, almost always never kept.
And the intelligentsia hardly go vote, since they know it is a joke.
At 7:20 AM -0700 7/24/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
It is a pity that you treat the Indian voters with such disdain.
The manner in which Indian voters have voted out incumbents and
brought in new governments several times, with the hope that things
will change - clearly shows money does not always buy votes in
India.
As I remember, ballot papers in India do not carry voter
identification and polling booths provide privacy. So, even after
getting a bus ride from a given candidate, what is there to prevent
the voter from voting for any candidate he wants to, once he is
inside the booth? I realize there is group or block voting but that
is another issue, not because they ride in the same bus.
Dilip
Chan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>being yolked together in jam-packed buses and taken to election
booths for casting their votes by >various political parties of
democratic India.
*** For those who have missed it, or at least pretend that they
missed it, it is not just B'Deshis that are herded to voting booths
in democratic India. That is the main method , all over India, even
for the authentic citizens. And those who have the most resources
to treat the revelers and get to the voting booths, win.
At 2:08 PM +0530 7/24/07, <http://assam.org/>Assam.org Webmaster wrote:
On 7/23/07, Satyen Brahma
<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Flushing out Bangladeshis: in 'Election Style'
During elections, we find illegal Bangladeshi migrants
being yolked together in jam-packed buses and taken to election
booths for casting their votes by various political parties of
democratic India. There are certain dalals (brokers) who carry out
the process on being paid by the contesting candidates. There is no
reason why such illegal migrants can't be thrown out of Assam by
adopting such steps. I urge the Indian Army to launch such an
operation to weed out Bangladeshis from Assam.
----Satyen Brahma,
Lokhora,
Guwahati
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