If their religion is supreme why isn't the muslim world the shining beacon of progress prosperity development in scientific fields equality ...... JS
On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Jyotirmoy Sharma < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Calling a spade a spade does not make me a Muslim hater or a Hindu fanatic. > I am neither. > But if they continue with their acts of terrorism in the name of their > religion, then there is something wrong. It is better to question that, > rather than deny the problem. And that has to be addressed by the educated > in their faith. > It is creating a problem for those of their faith who like us just want to > lead a normal live. If they chose to ignore, then all of their community > members get tagged. That is what is happening in Aus too. Because of the > actions of a few Lebanese crooks and an attention seeking imam, people are > questioning whether followers of their religion can assimilate with any > other culture. It's best to say that relations between the Christian Aussies > and muslims are not very friendly. There was a big racial riot in Sydney not > too long too ago ( The sequence of events being: Lebanese youths taunt and > pass remarks against white Aus women going to the beach in their beachwear, > they gang up and beat up an Aussie life saver; Aussies have enough of the > nonsense. One Sat, they gather in the beach in thousands and beat up any > middle eastern looking people ) > > Why does this happen everywhere? Is it wrong to question? Is it ok to wage > a war against "kafirs" and non-believers of their faith? > > > > > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > >> Hi J: >> >> >> At 8:14 PM +0800 5/17/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: >> >Hi C'da >> >I was thinking that since you have rubbished my ideas, you might have >> better >> >ones. So I gave you options to make your task easier. >> >> >> >> >> **** One does NOT have to have better ideas to be able to scrutinize >> those that are being offered. >> Should society's able people sit idly by just because they don't have >> a better solution to NOT oppose what is patently bad ? >> >> >> >> >> > >Yeah better living conditions and equality did not stop the 911 >> attacks, >> >Madrid bombings, the London underground bombings. You fail to understand >> >that these fundamentalist never adopt the country that have given them >> >refuge from their warn torn homeland. It is only recently that the >> western >> > >countries are coming to face with what India has been facing >> forgenerations. >> >> >> >> **** My response was to the question below: >> >> > > >Do you know why western nations( US, UK, Canada, Australia and >> likewise ) >> > >are relatively safe... That's because they take terrorism seriously. >> >> >> Can the assertion made in the question -- and the comment above "Yeah >> better living conditions and equality did not stop the 911 attacks" >> stand in the same context? >> >> What they point to is a flawed, confused thought process, an >> inability to analyze things critically. Question would be why? >> >> >> >> > >As for Dr Hanneef case it wasn't an entirely failed operation. As a >> fallout >> >of the efforts, it was found that some jihadi elements were planning to >> >strike Melbourne during a AFL final game. All have been arrested and are >> now >> languishing behind bars. This is what I meant by proactive actions. >> >> >> **** So was Dr. Haneef. He too languished behind bars and was already >> punished, even though he was not guilty of anything. Just because >> some others were too arrested and are "--languishing behind bars" >> proves NOTHING . What if they too are found to be not guilty? Then >> what? Would that advance Australia's security or would it further >> damage it? >> >> >> I dwell on the point for a very simple but critically important >> reason: When governments PUNISH people ( as by arresting and >> holding without trial for years on end) even when not guilty--or >> disproportionately to the crime committed, it does NOT advance >> society's safety--it merely worsens it. Assam is a terrific lesson >> in point. As is Kashmir. And all acrooss the length and breadth of >> the South Asian sub-continent. >> >> >> At the root of this phenomenon lies a dysfunctional state. The >> INSTITUTIONS OF STATE that are entrusted with it, must be thoroughly >> reformed, re-tooled and made functional to provide DETERRENCE to >> wrong-doers while protecting the well-being of society. >> >> But Indians have no concept of it, by and large, because generations >> of Indians have not seen any worthwhile example of it. And when they >> see it , often they cannot comprehend it. A good example is of >> The Kashmiri JNU prof--I forget the name, whose faulty death sentence >> was overturned by the Indian SC, unleashing a floodgate of anger and >> protests from the blood-thirsty lot, who assumed the man was guilty, >> just because he is a Kashmiri Muslim. >> >> Here lies the the need for EDUCATING the nation on what constitutes >> democracy and democratic values. Such education does not come >> imprinted on the genes. It has to be taught, the values inculcated. >> That MINORITIES, be it numerical or be it coded--as in Muslims, are >> NOT automatically , guilty, or are terrorists, as you imply in these >> posts. It points to your own hang-ups and prejudices and yours or >> other Hindu jealots' outbursts do not make your people any safer. It >> merely makes matters worse. For everybody. >> >> >> >> > > So, will it change? Yes, it can, if people put pressure on the >> >Govt. People can topple governments if they don't act. >> >> >> **** They keep doing it almost every four ( or is it five?) years in >> India. But show me WHAT has changed. I ask, because I want you to >> think. And if you do, instead of mouthing off your prejudices and >> fears every time, you just might find some USEFUL answers. But if >> you don't, no problem. There are others who have. We learn from each >> other. Pay attention and learn to open your mind. It will do you >> good. >> >> Best. >> >> cm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >**** Really? Well, I learn something everyday! Until now, I thought >> >it was because these societies do not have the conditions and the >> >social conflicts that have given rise to the kind of violence India >> >is reaping, and because their conflict resolution apparatus of >> >governance are functional, by and large. >> > >> >Yeah better living conditions and equality did not stop the 911 attacks, >> >Madrid bombings, the London underground bombings. You fail to understand >> >that these fundamentalist never adopt the country that have given them >> >refuge from their warn torn homeland. It is only recently that the >> western >> >countries are coming to face with what India has been facing for >> >generations. >> > >> > >> >**** So why DOES India sit back and do NOTHING ? What seems to be the >> >problem? >> >Corruption and power hungry politicians who do no think beyond retaining >> >their seats. For seeking power they would even settle the illegals in the >> >homeland and seek votes from them. Assam being a prime example. >> > >> >As for Dr Hanneef case it wasn't an entirely failed operation. As a >> fallout >> >of the efforts, it was found that some jihadi elements were planning to >> >strike Melbourne during a AFL final game. All have been arrested and are >> now >> >languishing behind bars. This is what I meant by proactive actions. They >> did >> >not wait for a stadium to be bombed and then look for clues. >> > >> >Mr Mahanta ..if your house is attacked by pests, you would probably clean >> up >> >the house and then put a pest barrier(insecticides, etc ) around your >> house. >> >That would not rid your house of pests but it will stop them from >> entering >> >your house, won't it? India is surrounded by two hostile neighbours who >> >obviously can't match India. If you are sure that these rogue elements >> are >> >coming from across the border, and the other country is not doing >> anything >> >to prevent these groups from attacking India, do you have too many other >> >options? >> > >> >Why India hasn't done so? The word is minority appeasement. I think you >> can >> >pretty much guess whom the term "minority" means in India. I leave that >> for >> >you to guess. So, will it change? Yes, it can, if people put pressure on >> the >> >Govt. People can topple governments if they don't act. >> > >> > >> >JS >> > >> > >> > >> >On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> At 9:36 PM +0800 5/16/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: >> >> >Ok... my ideas and suggestions are bad, do you have better ones: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** I was not the one who made those recommendations . >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Are you suggesting that >> >> >a) India do nothing >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Is that something I said or implied? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >b) Continue allowing more illegals into the country so that they can >> cause >> >> >more trouble. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Did I suggest any such thing? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I merely asked questions about the recommendations made. The >> >> answers speak for themselves. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > >Do you know why western nations( US, UK, Canada, Australia and >> likewise ) >> > > >are relatively safe... That's because they take terrorism seriously. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Really? Well, I learn something everyday! Until now, I thought >> > > it was because these societies do not have the conditions and the >> >> social conflicts that have given rise to the kind of violence India >> >> is reaping, and because their conflict resolution apparatus of >> >> governance are functional, by and large. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Do you >> >> >think any of these country will sit back if a city was hit with 7 >> bombs? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** So why DOES India sit back and do NOTHING ? What seems to be the >> >> problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >They do not go for minority appeasement and deal with terrorists and >> >> >terrorism with a strong hand. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Should I read here that 'minorities' and 'terrorists' are >> >> synonymous, or is it just this 'damned English language' problem >> >> again ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Remember the Dr Haneef case in Aus. The Aus >> >> >agencies did not wait for a terrorist activity to happen in it's soil >> >> first >> >> >and then react. They took preemptive actions, although in this regard >> it >> >> >turned out to be wrong. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Tsk! What a bummer!! One powerful example, except it turned out >> >> to be grossly faulty. Didn't the Australian Supreme Court order the >> > > govt. to allow Dr. Haneef to return or some such thing? >> >> >> >> >> >> That brings up the question again: Should India emulate what does not >> work? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >As for not doing anything, the results are there to see: bomb blasts >> one >> >> >after the other. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Once again I ask: WHY does India do NOTHING? What seems to be >> >> the problem? Is it because of a fear that Big Brother might not >> >> approve of ? What? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Demographic change across villages and towns . These >> >> >illegals then become prime candidates for jehadis. Assam becoming the >> >> worst >> >> >sufferer. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** I didn't realize that Assam is the worst victim of 'Jehadi >> >> bombing'. What did I miss? Where did that happen in recent times? >> >> And were the 'illegals' the perpetrators? And if they were, who >> >> proved it so, and what happened to the perpetrators? >> >> >> >> I am dying to learn. Seriously! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Mahatma Gandhi's principle of offering the other cheek also when >> slapped >> >> on >> >> >the other are long gone. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Thanks for educating me. I am not very well informed on these >> >> nuances of recent history. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >If you get hit, you have to hit back with twice the >> >> >force. >> >> >JS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Thanks again for sharing the wise notion. >> >> >> >> >> >> Not so sincerely yours, >> >> >> >> cm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:50 PM, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> At 7:50 PM +0800 5/15/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: >> >> >> >Yes...catch the culprits!! >> >> >> >If found to be handiwork of Indians, I don't see a point of >> wasting >> >> space >> >> >> in >> >> >> >jails. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *** Words of the wise! >> >> >> >> >> >> Question is WHO will do the CATCHING and dispensing of the implied >> >> >> SUMMARY justice? >> >> >> >> >> >> Time to bring the Indian Army, experienced in delivering such >> >> >> justice, back from Assam, Manipur, Nagaland, Kashmir and >> unleashing >> >> >> in Rajasthan, Mumbai, Dilli and UP perhaps ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >If found to be handiwork of "foreign" power, warn the countries >> >> involved >> >> >> to >> >> >> >hand over terrorists or groups involved within a timeframe. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** That would be NEW? >> >> >> >> >> >> And they would be TERRIFIED by desi-warnings? I can almost hear >> >> >> Pakistani knees rattling!! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >If not met, >> >> >> >launch military strikes inside their terrorist camps( be it POK >> or >> >> >> >Bangladesh or elsewhere ). >> >> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Assuming THAT is the answer, what has been holding India >> back? >> >> >> And if India could not do it all these years, HOW will that change >> >> >> tomorrow? Or WHY? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >If world condemns, issue statements like "it's a fight against >> >> terrorism >> >> >> and >> >> >> >either you are with us or with the terrorists." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** That is an astute advice no doubt. Only question is if it >> has >> >> >> brought any results for those who used the argument? >> >> >> >> >> >> When we copy something, should we not be competent enough to be >> able >> >> >> to copy something that BRINGS results, as opposed to copying dumb >> > > >> ideas? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >After all US, Israel, Russia, China do the same. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ***Hmmm! Again the question is IF they are good examples of >> having >> >> >> rid themselves of the scourge ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >India have to stop >> >> >> >adopting a soft approach to terrorist attacks. >> >> >> >plus >> >> >> >send all illegal immigrants back to where they came from. >> >> >> >JS >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **** Somehow the words ring utterly hollow and devoid of ordinary >> >> reason. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> >On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Chan Mahanta < >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Any suggestions on how to solve the problem? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 9:01 PM +0800 5/14/08, Jyotirmoy Sharma wrote: >> >> >> >> >Bombay, Hyderabad, Jaipur, ... the list will go on. >> >> >> >> >Our spineless govt. has as usual blamed a "foreign" power. >> Like >> >> all >> > > >> other >> >> >> >> >cases earlier, this will be in the news for a few days and >> will >> >> soon >> >> >> be >> >> >> >> >forgotten. >> >> >> >> >We keep buying weapons, spending billions buying jets, >> aircraft >> >> >> carriers, >> >> >> >> >testing missiles, ICBM's for what purpose? >> >> >> >> >JS >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> >assam mailing list >> >> >> >> >[email protected] >> >> >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> >> assam mailing list >> >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >> >assam mailing list >> >> >> >[email protected] >> >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> >> assam mailing list >> >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >assam mailing list >> >> >[email protected] >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> assam mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >assam mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> assam mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> > > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
