No, C'da, you misunderstood. All I was asking was, if after you had vetted this news out, did you find it to be accurate or not. I was not going into the reasons, root cause etc, and where one might justice.
Just whether the news was accurate, since you had an " approach has always been to examine the fundamental principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of." :-) --Ram On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > So, what conclusions did you come up with regarding the rape allegations > as > > reported in the TOI? > > > > > **** I don't NEED to draw conclusions from it. It is quite obvious to me > WHY the Naxal movement is there. > > Nothing that has happened to Uma ( or not) or any other such > person/persons, will anyway, make it go away. > If the report was accurate, there will be no justice found for her. > Rebellions and insurgencies are NOT places where one goes > seeking uniform or any justice. Justice must be SOUGHT and FOUND in what is > purported to be the 'democratic state' . > > And IF the report was trumped up or fabricated, it would be yet another > attempt by the dysfunctional state and its willing > or unwitting accomplices in spreading propaganda to counter the rebels' > spread. > > > > > > > On Aug 24, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > >> That is why, MY approach has always been to examine the fundamental > > principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of. > > > > Excellent, C'da. > > > > So, what conclusions did you come up with regarding the rape allegations > as > > reported in the TOI? > > > > --Ram > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:37 AM, Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >>> Uttam - this not about you or me suspecting the sources of news - but, > we > >>> all know, 'manufactured news' is becoming quite common these days. And > >> this > >>> makes us all susitible to pick & choose the news we want to believe, > and > >>> suspect the others as being manufactured. Unless it is quite blatant > like > >>> MMS is a Naxal (as you put it). > >> > >> > >> > >> **** There are different kinds of NEWS Ram. Some we can reasonably > expect > >> to be accurate or nearly accurate. There are other types of news that we > can > >> NEVER be sure of. > >> > >> That is why, MY approach has always been to examine the fundamental > >> principles, not the news or reports that we can never be sure of. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Aug 24, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >> > >>> I too, am not too familiar with the term, but in this context (as it > >> could > >>> well apply to me) it means unnecessary arguments, or arguments for > >> arguments > >>> sake, or arguing just for the heck of it. :-). > >>> > >>> But there is a reasoning (even in this crazed mind of mine): Why would > >> this > >>> question of 'plugged news' not come up with other opposing news? > >>> > >>> > >>> btw: here are some links of rapes by Maoists on their own cadres - one > of > >>> them is from March this year. Different newspapers, different times - > all > >> of > >>> them bought, & loaded? I don't know. > >>> > >>> http://www.sajha.com/sajha/html/OpenThread.cfm?forum=2&ThreadID=23458 > >>> > >>> > >> > http://news.oneindia.in/2010/03/05/maoists-shoot-girl-for-filing-rape-case.html > >>> > >>> http://www.deccanchronicle.com/national/maoists-rape-teen-who-quit-068 > >>> > >>> Uttam - this not about you or me suspecting the sources of news - but, > we > >>> all know, 'manufactured news' is becoming quite common these days. And > >> this > >>> makes us all susitible to pick & choose the news we want to believe, > and > >>> suspect the others as being manufactured. Unless it is quite blatant > like > >>> MMS is a Naxal (as you put it). > >>> > >>> I am in a bit of a rush - but will attempt to respond to all, later > this > >>> evening > >>> > >>> -- Ram da > >>> > >>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> I am not familiar with the term 'koot-torko', but in this context, > could > >> it > >>>> be disingenuous arguments :-)? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 10:52 AM, uttam borthakur wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Ram Da, > >>>>> I thought I was weighing a sort of balanced view, when I pointed out > >> two > >>>> possibilities: that the rape news was either plugged or may be wholly/ > >>>> partially true. But you seem to have told me that I should take only > one > >>>> view.: that rape news is true. > >>>>> While the report on Supreme Court judgment reported in the TOI can be > >>>> verified from the records of the Court and reports of the cases used > for > >>>> precedents; you perhaps cannot verify the authenticity of a reporter > >>>> alleging rape by Kishanji or his camp followers. And if you are not > too > >>>> biased, you surely know what 'plugging' is in journalistic term, as I > >>>> remember learning the term long ago from the notorious novel The > >>>> Fountainhead in my teens. Does that mean each and every item in a news > >> paper > >>>> has to be 'plugged'? You simply cannot report that MMS has become a > >> Naxal > >>>> today; but you may always report that from a reliable source you have > >> learnt > >>>> that there is going to be a cabinet reshuffle. The first one would > make > >> you > >>>> lose credibility, which a paper like TOI cannot afford; and the second > >> it > >>>> can always report without losing credibility, as it is not > verifiable. > >> In > >>>> Assam, at this moment, NEWSLIVE owned by Himanta Biswa Sarma has to > >> report > >>>> Okhil Gogoi's > >>>>> meetings; but it also publishes hearsay that everyone speaking about > >> Sri > >>>> Gogoi having sold his soul to Himanta Biswa Sarma for a sum of Rs.2 > >> crores, > >>>> which is not verifiable. > >>>>> Why are you snaring me into a debate that takes us away from the core > >>>> issues? > >>>>> Your second remark is also full of holes. Yes, Kishanji may not hold > a > >>>> court of inquiry against himself; that is why I said that if the > Naxals/ > >>>> Maoists fail to bring the guilty (whoever it is) to book, then they > will > >>>> lose support base in no time. Where did I go wrong? What new dimension > >> have > >>>> you added to what I said, but you are giving an impression that I had > >> told > >>>> something childish. > >>>>> It has taken 23 years to reach the Supreme Court a 'question' of > >>>> compensation to displaced people, who had been displaced by the > >> Government, > >>>> that should have been settled by the Government, which claims to > >> represent > >>>> the people in a democracy.Except one with blinkers shall spread the > >> angelic > >>>> message around that " look, look, it may be justice delayed, but not > >> justice > >>>> denied; the beauty of the Indian judiciary that still works in this > >> thriving > >>>> democracy". > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Ram Sarangapani assamrs at gmail.com > >>>>> Tue Aug 24 09:35:04 IST 2010Previous message: [Assam] The > Naxal/Maoist > >>>> Movement, Part 2?Next message: [Assam] I am not opposed to talks: ULFA > >>>> leaderMessages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author > ]Dear > >>>> Uttam, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> There may be two possibilities. (1) The story is state propaganda > and > >>>> (2) > >>>>> The story may be true, partially or wholly. > >>>>>> If it is a propaganda, > >>>>> > >>>>> Ah, yes. I had plum forgotten about that distinct possibility about > the > >>>> TOI > >>>>> making this whole thing (no doubt egged on by the state machinery). > >>>>> > >>>>> So, Uttam, what about the other stories (from the TOI)? Should we > >>>> discount > >>>>> them...? I think, I'll just cherry pick. That suits me quite well. > >>>>> > >>>>>> If it is true, partially or wholly, then the Naxals/ Maoists would > >> lose > >>>>> support if those guilty of the crimes are not brought to books and > >>>> awarded > >>>>>> exemplary punishments either by their own courts, > >>>>> > >>>>> The problem, Uttam, is that (according to the story), it is the > leaders > >>>> who > >>>>> are the ones committing the rapes. I am not really sure they will be > >>>> really > >>>>> gung ho on some kind of court (to punish the guilty). > >>>>> > >>>>>> BTW: 2000 farmers from Chattisgarh in the meanwhile have petitioned > >> the > >>>>> President asking for permission to commit suicide, because of hunger. > >>>>> > >>>>> Hunger and poverty are real issues, and I certainly think these have > to > >>>> be > >>>>> addressed in all seriousness. > >>>>> > >>>>> But tell me something, why would potential suiciders (as GW Bush > loved > >> to > >>>>> say) want to take the permission from anyone. > >>>>> If the president gave her assent, would they go ahead? > >>>>> > >>>>> Mass suicides are organized, and quite possibly lead by some > political > >>>> hack. > >>>>> But I do believe there are genuine cases, > >>>>> which may be in the 100s at least, and do need governmental > >> intervention. > >>>>> > >>>>> --Ram da > >>>>> > >>>>> Uttam Kumar Borthakur > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> assam mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> assam mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> assam mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> assam mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
