The older and younger argument, as a means for defending the failures and aberrations, is fallacious, because:
A: It is not that India is having to INVENT what is right. They already know it and wave it around. Except that it is only the wrappings. B: Those who pioneered it, did have to experiment with it, and thus it took time. What is India's excuse? On Feb 11, 2011, at 4:38 PM, Assam wrote: > C'da, > I agree. In fact, I'll go a bit further: > The strength of a true Democracy lies in it's ability to protect and uphold > the rights of it's weakest minorities. Once that's done, it can go ahead with > the next rung, and so on. > Having said that, I think democracies go through phases & challenges. Even > advanced democracies (UK) find it difficult to meet those challenges. India > is only 6 decades old. Comparatively, there are glaring lapses in this > experiment, even in the US. > > --Ram > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Feb 11, 2011, at 3:19 PM, Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >>> caste. >> >> *** So does Democracy. But in a true democracy there ARE limits to majority >> power. That is why in an enlightened pluralistic society, majority will >> must not >> be the only thing that rules. >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >>> C'da, >>> >>> If I'm not mistaken, a short prayer is often done in office Christmas >>> parties. Don't know about the WH Christmas tree. >>> >>> The US $ bills also have "In God we trust". Is that secular? >>> >>> One may argue that it doesn't specifically refer to the Christian God, but >>> what about them American atheists? Is it 'secular' to them? >>> >>> The Supreme Court (as well as all US courts, Federal or state) always swear >>> on the Bible. >>> In India they swear on the Bhagavad Geeta. >>> >>> Not sure why people are required to take an oath to tell the truth. Wouldn't >>> they, even if they didn't swear? >>> It is as if people by default will lie, unless they swear upon some holy >>> text. >>> >>>> Would they let the Muslims perform a similar service ? Or would they have >>> let a Dalit perform such a Puja? >>> >>> Probably not. And nor will the GOI pay a Hindu to go on trip to Mecca (if he >>> so desired). >>> >>> To the majority goes the spoils .. be it language, culture, religion or >>> caste. >>> >>> --Ram >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Chan Mahanta <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and could >>>>> be termed 'cultural'. >>>> >>>> >>>> **** That is a real streeeetch! Diwali lighting maybe. But not performing >>>> Pujas., >>>> which will be same as holding a church service. Would they let the Muslims >>>> perform a similar service ? Or would they have let a Dalit perform such a >>>> Puja? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>> >>>>> KC, >>>>> >>>>> Even in Texas, there are court buildings with the 10 Commandments. >>>>> >>>>> The greater issue is that media channels like Fox or any number of the >>>>> conservative talk shows, and even senators & congressmen/women are >>>> regularly >>>>> on the media spewing one form hatred (or prejudice) or another. And these >>>>> folks are supposedly the intellectuals of the country. >>>>> >>>>> Most will skillfully maneuver themselves just short of existing laws (or >>>>> societal principles). >>>>> >>>>> The lighting of Christmas trees is akin to ground-breaking pujas and >>>> could >>>>> be termed 'cultural'. >>>>> >>>>> --Ram da >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Krishnendu Chakraborty < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Here is from wiki -- >>>>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Early_prayer.2FTen_Commandments_controversy >>>>>> "The practice of opening court sessions with prayer, though not uniform >>>>>> throughout Alabama, continues in state courtrooms today" >>>>>> >>>>>> **** The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in >>>>>> reality >>>>>> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. >>>>>> >>>>>> --- I thought you are one of those who believe "in those PRINCIPLES in >>>>>> reality" but strange I never saw you fighting back Obama's lighting >>>> the >>>>>> CHRISTMAS tree or Supreme Court (and numerous other US Govt. offices) >>>>>> decorated with CHRISTMAS tree. >>>>>> >>>>>> May be I was wrong and you are just one who wear them on their sleeves >>>> to >>>>>> look good :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW, WHOSE tradition is it to decorate a Christmas tree ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Tough questions ... I understand. Don't bother to even attempt to >>>> reply. >>>>>> >>>>>> ***************************************************************** >>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:52 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>> Well, C'da >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think they should be taken lying down. People do protest. And >>>>>>> sometimes those protests work. But, how on earth are you going to >>>> change >>>>>>> belief systems & prejudices that are ages old. >>>>>> >>>>>> **** That has to come from the intellectuals from the ranks of the >>>>>> adherents of those faiths. >>>>>> If it is absent, it demonstrates the vacuity of their beliefs. >>>>>> >>>>>>> And unfortunately, you don't have go all the way to India to find >>>>>> examples. >>>>>>> You can pretty much find some great examples in this country - the >>>>>> bastion >>>>>>> of secular/democratic principles >>>>>> >>>>>> **** The difference lies in HOW those who believe in those PRINCIPLES in >>>>>> reality >>>>>> ( not just wear them on their sleeves to look good) fight back. Remember >>>>>> the TEN Commandments >>>>>> Statue in the Alabama Supreme Court Building? You know where they are >>>> now, >>>>>> don't you :-)? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --Ram >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *** So, should that therefore be accepted, taken lying down :-)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 11:20 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I object to is claiming to be secular on the one hand, while >>>>>>>>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> C'da, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> While this sounds nice, it is really Utopian. I don't believe there >>>> is >>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> single country where religious hegemony does not exist in some for or >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> other (of course, I am talking about democracies). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And in democracies, it's not just the problems of religious hegemony, >>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> forget to add language, state, race, caste & color into the mix. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---Ram >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at >>>> gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *** I think so too. They have a long and enviable history and >>>>>>>> civilization. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *** I have no problem with a homogeneous society willing to remain >>>>>> bound >>>>>>>>>> by religious rule--its their choice. What I object to is claiming to >>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> secular on the one hand, while >>>>>>>>>> practising religious hegemony, on the sly or overtly. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hehe! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Now, we will have to see if that bit of 'secularism' you were just >>>>>>>>>> talking >>>>>>>>>>> about will be palatable :-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But, I think, the Egyptians will just fine. From all indications, >>>> it >>>>>>>>>> looks >>>>>>>>>>> like the army will facilitate the transition, and Egypt will have a >>>>>>>>>>> government chosen by it's people. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ---Ram >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at >>>>>> gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Now comes the hard part :-) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 2011, at 10:41 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/02/11/egypt.protests/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>>> assam at assamnet.org >>>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> assam mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> assam mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> assam mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> assam mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> assam mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
