>There is another thing. If the cops in India had been in a similar
situation, I have little doubt that the whole Western Hemisphere would
be tellling the Indians how to apprehend and capture terrorists and
avoid killing innocent bystanders. Not only that, they would be do so
in a holier-than-thou attitude.
Tsk, tsk! My heart goes out to all these cops-but- not-army folks who
are lectured by the whole world if they mistakenly take someone's
life.
Have you heard of deaths in custody? Must be under dire
circumstances, attempting to save the public from clear and imminent
danger.
Give us a break Ram. The victim complex displayed here is very
unpersuasive, to put it mildly.
And I won't even touch the 'professionalism' of the armed forces,
what with officers getting decorated for trophies of 'insurgents'
taken in fake-encounters, or gunned down routinely because they look
so foreign.
c-da
At 8:50 AM -0500 7/30/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> I am sorry if my comments have caused you any offence. That >was
certainly not my intention
Of course, I do understand that you had intention was not to offend. I
also understand that being close to 'ground-zero' would change
anyone's prespective on such matters. And no offence taken.
Some points though:
The case of Borpujari,if I remember correct, involved the CRPF
(Andhra), and again not the Indian Army. Having been a boarder of 3rd
Mess for a number of years, we too would get chills as we passes by
2nd Mess everyday.
the S.P. gave an order to shoot
That in it self should clue us in that it wasn't the army. The Army
and the CRPF are totally different forces. In India, only in dire
circumstances is the army deployed. The reason is to keep them at a
distance from the public and use them primarily in the country's
defence and national security.
The same with Khargeswar Talukdar. We were students at that time and
if did affect all of us deeply. Again it wasn't the army.
Now, have army personnel ever been on the wrong side? Absolutely, and
one can cite many examples. But the example I was looking for was if
there was a 'standing policy' that the Indian Army had to
shoot-to-kill? I seriously doubt that.
As for the rapes etc, when individual soldiers go berserk, the Indian
Military Courts of Justice, just does not give them a pat on their
backs and send them on their way.
These MCJ is extremely strict, and punishments are severe, and not
publized at all.
To sum it up, what I was trying to get to is this:
The 3 cops chasing the Brazillian were basically following POLICY when
they shot the young man when he was down on the ground, (obviously
surrendered), and that too 7 times to the head at point blank range
(because the policy states that shooting on the chest may trigger an
explosion etc etc).
My problem is more to do with a policy terribily gone wrong and not so
much with the cops on the beat.
There is another thing. If the cops in India had been in a similar
situation, I have little doubt that the whole Western Hemisphere would
be tellling the Indians how to apprehend and capture terrorists and
avoid killing innocent bystanders. Not only that, they would be do so
in a holier-than-thou attitude.
with warm regards
--Ram
On 7/30/05, Rini Kakati <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I am sorry if my comments have caused you any offence. That was certainly
not my intention. Perhaps it would have been more accurate if I had stated
that the incidents with the Indian army occur with worrying regularity
rather than "all the time".
By my comments, I am not seeking to make a direct comparison between the
situation in the UK and India. However I would suggest that a balanced
picture needs to be drawn. Whilst I now live in the UK, I am an Indian by
birth. I am not, by my comments seeking to criticise my homeland, far from
> it -- I love the country where I was born and raised. However and perhaps
because of this, I simply can not ignore the obvious and worrying situation
which I see and hear about each time I return.
You have requested examples. I would suggest that you simply consider the
numerous incidents that are frequently reported in the local newspaper
covering the area. It was the Indian army in Assam (CRPF Jawans) who rapes
tribal women in villages while they raid their houses looking for militants
every now and again.
The killing of Ranjit Borpujari at one of the hostel at Cotton College in
that July morning 1960 is still fresh in my memory. I was only a school
girl. On that occasion there was a protest demanding Assamese language to be
officially recognised. As the procession passed the Second Mess in Panbazar,
number of young boys were playing table-tennis at the forecourt of the
hostel. As another young boy (still in his pyjamas) coming out of a room,
the S.P. gave an order to shoot.
Shots were fired at the group and the boy who was coming out of the room was
shot in the back of the head and subsequently died. He was Ranjit Borpujari
-- an innocent young student. Was there a detailed inquiry or investigation
? was the officer who gave the order prosecuted or arrested or even
reprimanded for his actions ? I do not know. All I knew that he was simply
transferred out of Assam.
This incident remains with me to this day, not least as one of my maternal
uncle Amar Hazarika (Manju mama) who is a champion table-tennis player of
Assam was also heavily injured along with others -- as a result.
During Assam agitation in 1980, young boy Khageshsar Talukdar was killed in
Barpeta when again the S.P. gave an order to shoot at a peaceful
demonstration.
Whilst I appreciate that this incident occurred many years ago, incidents
like these sadly continue up to the present day. There are numerous similar
reported incidents where innocent young men are killed by the Indian army
when they are looking for ULFA or similar. These incidents are simply
recorded as men "... killed on encounters." A short cold phrase frequently
used to cover a multitude of sins.
At the end of the day we are agreed that recent shooting in London was
extremely sad and unfortunate and I appreciate that you support my stance on
this issue.
Perhaps we should now draw a line under this matter. Hopefully we can agree
that there are elements of good and bad in all countries and all cultures
and that it is important that people question incidents where human life is
violated or taken away, particularly where it arises from an "abuse of
power".
Rini Kakati
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