True, with the type shop you mention. But, as an alternative, each
programming team could at least manage and share macros.
Tony Thigpen
-----Original Message -----
From: Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: 07/23/2014 11:38 AM
I would contend that in a large shop (hundreds of programmers) with
geographically and time-zone dispersed development teams and ever-tightening
project schedules, a central tools team and tool support system is needed.
Otherwise there is no synergy towards the ultimate business goal of delivering
quality products that clients want to use, on time and with zero defects.
But, I respect your POV. As the perl mongers say, TMTOWTDI.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Tony Thigpen
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:13 AM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative)
I think you hit something on the head, but not what you expected.
Why should there be a tools team? The main programmers know what they
need and usually can write the tools they need. They can also maintain
the doc.
But, everybody wants someone else to do it.
Good programmers want to be efficient. They like debugged macros. Most
simple macros only need about 1 or 2 lines of doc at the front about
their usage. If the macro name and the macro parms are named well, maybe
not even that much. Remember, the programmer using the macro does
understand the basics about macros and can review the code if he has a
question. He can even update the comments when he is done.
And all it takes for an index of macros is to put a spreadsheet on a
shared network drive. Anytime a macro is added, or discovered, place an
entry in the table. It does not take but a few seconds.
Now days, everybody wants someone else to do it, so they don't perform
even the simplest thing. The man-hours that could be saved by that same
programmer reinventing the wheel would have more than covered the time
it would have taken him to update a spreadsheet listing macros.
Tony Thigpen
-----Original Message -----
From: Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: 07/23/2014 09:55 AM
And there is the rub: "... if documented, maintained and supported by training and management
guidelines". Too many shops have no such support system in place, nor the requisite team to
perform the documentation and maintenance. IOW no one wants to pay for a "programmers' tools
team".
I have never understood why there is so little support for a tools team when
the payback in productivity and speed-to-market (which can certainly be
measured in real money) is so pronounced.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On
Behalf Of David Stokes
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:56 AM
To: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative)
Probably best to ignore certain individuals who rather seem to like to be
insulting, but of course not personally. On the whole they don't do much for
most discussions, other than beating their own drum.
I think Steve is talking about different people/groups basically doing their
own thing and ending up with lots of probably undocumented little macros, and I
agree that that is worse than useless for the wider world.
OTOH one can develop suites of macros to implement higher level functions,
frameworks etc. which if documented, maintained and supported by training and
management guidelines can be very useful for larger developments. Where would
we be without IBM system macros, after all? One can extend them with further
really useful functionality and save a lot of repetitive development effort.
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] Im
Auftrag von Sharuff Morsa3
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2014 11:36
An: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Betreff: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative)
I work regularly with Steve. It is, and has been, a please and a delight.
I've always respected his views, many of which I agree with.
Sharuff
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:35:36 -0400
From: ASSEMBLER-LIST@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative)
There is just so much wrong with several things you mentioned.
But, based on your last statement, you don't care anyway, so I, for one,
will not bother.
I just pity the poor people you work with.
Tony Thigpen
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