>>Where is the programmer manager during all this? Did he not bother to do even >>a basic code review? It looks like he did not control his people so things >>went down fast.
Yes, sort of my point, partly. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: IBM Mainframe Assembler List [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Tony Thigpen Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2014 17:34 An: [email protected] Betreff: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative) Where is the programmer manager during all this? Did he not bother to do even a basic code review? It looks like he did not control his people so things went down fast. Tony Thigpen -----Original Message ----- From: David Stokes Sent: 07/23/2014 11:05 AM > I don't totally disagree with you, but the problem is that without good > standards and some architectural concept behind them such small macros start > to multiply, there are different versions, copies, recreation of existing > things because someone didn't look (or care) that something was already > there, and so on. At the end of the day if uncontrolled what happens is that > each competent programmer decides to do his own thing and make his own set of > "helpful" macros. I'm not recommending a lot of trivial macros anyway. > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: IBM Mainframe Assembler List > [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Tony Thigpen > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2014 16:13 > An: [email protected] > Betreff: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative) > > I think you hit something on the head, but not what you expected. > > Why should there be a tools team? The main programmers know what they > need and usually can write the tools they need. They can also maintain > the doc. > > But, everybody wants someone else to do it. > > Good programmers want to be efficient. They like debugged macros. Most > simple macros only need about 1 or 2 lines of doc at the front about > their usage. If the macro name and the macro parms are named well, > maybe not even that much. Remember, the programmer using the macro > does understand the basics about macros and can review the code if he > has a question. He can even update the comments when he is done. > > And all it takes for an index of macros is to put a spreadsheet on a > shared network drive. Anytime a macro is added, or discovered, place > an entry in the table. It does not take but a few seconds. > > Now days, everybody wants someone else to do it, so they don't perform > even the simplest thing. The man-hours that could be saved by that > same programmer reinventing the wheel would have more than covered the > time it would have taken him to update a spreadsheet listing macros. > > > Tony Thigpen > > -----Original Message ----- > From: Farley, Peter x23353 > Sent: 07/23/2014 09:55 AM >> And there is the rub: "... if documented, maintained and supported by >> training and management guidelines". Too many shops have no such support >> system in place, nor the requisite team to perform the documentation and >> maintenance. IOW no one wants to pay for a "programmers' tools team". >> >> I have never understood why there is so little support for a tools team when >> the payback in productivity and speed-to-market (which can certainly be >> measured in real money) is so pronounced. >> >> Peter >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Stokes >> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:56 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative) >> >> Probably best to ignore certain individuals who rather seem to like to be >> insulting, but of course not personally. On the whole they don't do much for >> most discussions, other than beating their own drum. >> >> I think Steve is talking about different people/groups basically doing their >> own thing and ending up with lots of probably undocumented little macros, >> and I agree that that is worse than useless for the wider world. >> >> OTOH one can develop suites of macros to implement higher level functions, >> frameworks etc. which if documented, maintained and supported by training >> and management guidelines can be very useful for larger developments. Where >> would we be without IBM system macros, after all? One can extend them with >> further really useful functionality and save a lot of repetitive development >> effort. >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: IBM Mainframe Assembler List >> [mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von Sharuff >> Morsa3 >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Juli 2014 11:36 >> An: [email protected] >> Betreff: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative) >> >> I work regularly with Steve. It is, and has been, a please and a delight. >> I've always respected his views, many of which I agree with. >> Sharuff >> >>> >>> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014 16:35:36 -0400 >>> From: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: Macros -- was: EDit mask for floating minus (negative) >>> >>> There is just so much wrong with several things you mentioned. >>> But, based on your last statement, you don't care anyway, so I, for >>> one, >> >>> will not bother. >>> >>> I just pity the poor people you work with. >>> >>> Tony Thigpen >>> >>> -----Original Message ----- >>> From: Steve Hobson >>> Sent: 07/22/2014 04:25 PM >> -- >> >> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the >> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. >> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized >> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >> dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have >> received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail >> and delete the message and any attachments from your system. >> >> > >
