Apparently some people take things a little more personal\serious than I do.
If you have that sort of volume, then you can justify layer two links into
your providers' networks.
Layer 2 links (whether cross-connects within the carrier hotel or some sort
of transport to another location) to your providers is every bit as good as
a DS3. You then peer your AS with their AS. Since your ASes would be
peers, traffic would logically flow over the cross connect. If something
happens to that link (assuming you have no other forms of redundancy), you
can resort to a public Internet path to save your butt. I am relatively new
to all of this, but I'm thinking that if you and your provider have
Level(3), they won't dump it off to PCCW just to pick it back up again. It
does not make fiscal or engineering sense.
I'm sure those that have deployed a network similar to what I described (and
am in process of building out) have enjoyed the same happiness with their
solution, however, they have a more flexible solution that has cost them
less. As the saying goes (I'm sure with some degree of slaughter)... No
one got fired for buying IBM, but many got promoted for implementing a
better solution.
Yes, the ICS that I started is a local WISP, VoIP operator, network support,
etc., etc. However, I am in process of securing racks, bandwidth, private
lines, etc. in several carrier hotels in the US and EU (possible
merger\acquisition of another provider with a presence in the US and Asia).
The clients that I have\am working with represent over 20k lines. I have
grown beyond the simple operation you take me for.
Am I pushing a product? No, I am not ready for customers. I'm just trying
to push against the "TDM is holier than thou" mentality when not needed.
GSM? Why? It sounds horrible. G.711 or G.729. I'm waiting for good
Asterisk support of wideband codecs for higher quality yet.
----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Totaro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] RE: If money is not a considerationwho
givesthebestSIP termination??
I know how BGP and IGP work and if the ISP has policies to peer at a
certain point than peering it is, you cannot say traffic always stays on
your providers network, especially when speaking about links to the EU.
Maybe it is better that the traffic is sent to a peer for a particular hop
at a particular time (outage or overload). Blanket statements such as
sharing a common ISP means that data does not cross peering points is
simply incorrect.
If an ISP has an absolute policy to NEVER peer traffic destined for a node
on the same ISP then that is one ISP I would never deal with.
"ALMOST does not count except in horse shoes and hand grenades." Neither
of which would I ever consider basing 12,000 call a day 5million
minute/mo, multi-million dollar call center on.
Lets talk dollars and cents. Quantify the cost part of "IP connections
can be made much more fault tolerant than TDM connections at a much lower
cost." I understand the fault tolerance (but not so much in your no
peering scenario). Cost of what? The cost of redundancy? Are you
including the costs of lost revenue, sales, an hour of downtime costing
$25k? Lets talk numbers since we both understand how the public internet
works (or doesn't for realtime apps). Neither my voice DS3 nor my
multilink 3xT1s have ever gone down and have always provided PERFECT voice
quality.
If you are pushing a product and agenda, and I am sure you are since this
is the biz list ( http://www.ics-il.com/voip.php ), then I understand the
motivations behind your posts. Otherwise I am not quite sure. It appears
that you are looking for residential and SoHo customers. This is nowhere
near the scale or class of service that I need or represent.
I would prefer doing a point to point multilink or similar with someone
like www.thevpf.com or www.teliax.com who have POPs in the major carrier
hotels using GSM.
Thanks,
Steve Totaro
Mike Hammett wrote:
I know how the Internet works. I'm about to get my own AS for 7 sites in
the US and 2 in the EU with more to come.
If both endpoints share a common ISP, its ALMOST as good as having a
private IP link. The data does not cross peering points and your
provider is solely responsible for the quality of the traffic. Better
than that is to purchase layer 2 services available from MANY providers.
If you get your own AS, you can then peer with your VoIP partners as well
as one or more transit providers. This then provides a failover if your
private link goes down. IP connections can be made much more fault
tolerant than TDM connections at a much lower cost.
----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Totaro"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] RE: If money is not a considerationwho
givesthebest SIP termination??
And how do you do this over the public internet? Do you control the
routers? Do they observe your QoS settings? Do they guarantee a
certain router will not have too much latency or packets will arrive in
the same order or even traverse the same path? No they dont.
"Make the network the VoIP is running over better." is pretty difficult
when you do not control the network (ie the internet) and when data is
handed off between ISPs, it becomes impossible. Do a traceroute to just
about anything and you will see that your traffic is going over multiple
routers owned by multiple companies and tinkered with by multitudes of
techs on daily basis.
As I said, TDM or point to point data links are the only way to go if
price is not an issue.
Convince me otherwise.
Thanks,
Steve Totaro
Mike Hammett wrote:
What's the point in using TDM anymore. Your problem with the quality
isn't with VoIP itself, but what it's running over. Make the network
the VoIP is running over better.
----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Totaro"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2006 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] RE: If money is not a consideration who
givesthebest SIP termination??
If money was not a consideration then why would you go with SIP at all
unless it is coming over point to point data links?
Global Crossing offers SIP service but the cost is basically the same
as TDM (at least with our agreement) and comes as dedicated bandwidth.
The upside of this is no TDM equipment on our end such as Sangoma or
Digium cards and dedicated servers to translate our DS3 (28 T1s) into
SIP (a fairly large hardware investment, although, small in the TDM
world). I also assume that calls delivered by a major carrier over
dedicated lines would have absolutely no echo issues and negligable
ping times as well (another huge plus).
Why risk SIP over the public internet if money is not a consideration
but quality is? The answer there is TDM.
That being said, if money *is* an issue but so is quality (knowing the
trade-offs, ins and outs of VoIP), who can offer origination and
termination with LNP of 1,000 toll free numbers and approx 5million
minutes a month? Mostly inbound toll free for a call center
application and outbound of about 1million minutes (quickly ramping
up) of outbound LD to the US 48 for a calling card application? We
could easily see 10 million minutes in the next six months or so.
On top of that, who if anyone can offer a co-lo in the DC metro area
(other areas considered) to keep latency down?
If anyone can do that, I would LOVE to talk to you.
Thanks,
Steve
jay kordic wrote:
I have multiple partners that are USA based companies and resell USA
Tier 1 networks such as Verizon/MCI, Level 3/Broadwing, Qwest and
Global Crossing. Most of these resellers have no minimum commitment,
bill by LATA/OCN and can mix and match underlying carriers for both
cost effectiveness and redundancy. Please contact me to discuss a
program that could be a great fit for you. At least give me an
opportunity.
Jay Kordic
The Horizon Group
Wholesale/Retail VOIP and TDM services
951-780-3131 (office)
951-850-0887 (mobile)
515-322-0273 (fax)
MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yahoo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Alan
Frisch
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:57 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* [asterisk-biz] RE: If money is not a consideration who
gives thebest SIP termination??
Forgive me if I've had me head in the sand for too long... but when
did Bulgaria become a part of the United States?
Hello Mike,
We are a US carrier offering excellent quality A-Z termination,
servicing
successfully retail corporate and individual networks for over 6
years.
Please contact me offline to discuss in details.
Thanks and best regards,
Albena Trencheva
Nutel Communications LLC
Tel: +359 2 4900442
Mob; +359 88 843 31 97
Email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<http://www.nutel.cc/> www.nutel.cc <http://www.nutel.cc>
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