> I think you discovered there are a number of facets to making the switch.The
> complexity level is a bit more than I first anticipated, but its a new
> technology I'm not familiar with which is cool, I'm learning.> Perhaps it
> would be interesting to compare something like asterisk and> Nortel to
> knowledgetree/alfresco and SharePoint?At first I was looking at exchange
> server and possible open source alternatives to that, but then came across
> Asterisk and decided it was more interesting. I haven't heard of Knowledtree
> before but it looks like a cool revision system for documents and I'll be
> making note of it in case i need such a program in the future.> IMHO your
> test case is pretty sane. It is possible to use existing Nortel> handsets
> with an * system, but the cost of doing so is pretty much a wash> with buying
> all new IP phones. You can get a nice IP phone set for> $200-$300 USD, where
> the box to use the Nortel handsets is in the $2,500> ballpark. Replacement
> Nortel sets are "dumb" and still fall in the $300> range. Don't forget about
> the eBay sale of the old system ;)Ah, good, I'm glad to hear its sane! If the
> equipment to support the existing handsets is more expensive than the new
> equipment and a set of new IP phones, or comparable, than it is a wash. And I
> think some "eBay" asset recovery isn't totally out of the question in this
> case study.> There are also a lot of intangibles to consider. The backing of
> "qualified> engineers" for companies like Avaya, Cisco, etc. vs. the
> incredible> flexibility of an open source solution. There is also the
> possibility that> the open source flexibility would give a business some kind
> of competitive> advantage they would not normally have - depending on the
> nature of the> business. Agreed.> If you can find a "scrappy" consultancy
> that knows their stuff cold the open> source alternative may become very
> attractive. > > There is a lot of conjecture here.Yes, I know, but it is a
> term paper, and so I think I can make a couple assumptions without losing my
> credibility :)I want to show the superior feature set, but bottom line, I'm
> hoping to show its cheaper, without losing performance or support.> The most
> unfortunate thing is that a lot of companies are not interested in> taking
> the chance. They want something that says "Cisco" on it because they> think
> that is the only way they are guaranteed support.I was even discussing this
> with a friend, and it was difficult to convince them that an opensource
> solution would even have such a thing as support. I suppose if my case study
> company has no IT expertise whatsoever, and don't care about features, the
> deciding factor would be cost and support. And in a real world situation I
> can see Cisco winning out to Asterisk/Support company just by name. But in my
> case study, the other factors get their fair share!Thanks for the comments!>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected]> Subject: RE:
> [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007
> 01:50:02 +0000> > I think you discovered there are a number of facets to
> making the switch.> > Perhaps it would be interesting to compare something
> like asterisk and> Nortel to knowledgetree/alfresco and SharePoint?> > It is
> probably safe to point out that open source often 'displaces' costs.>
> Shifting the costs from licensing to implementation and from products to>
> people.> > IMHO your test case is pretty sane. It is possible to use
> existing Nortel> handsets with an * system, but the cost of doing so is
> pretty much a wash> with buying all new IP phones. You can get a nice IP
> phone set for> $200-$300 USD, where the box to use the Nortel handsets is in
> the $2,500> ballpark. Replacement Nortel sets are "dumb" and still fall in
> the $300> range. Don't forget about the eBay sale of the old system ;)> >
> There are also a lot of intangibles to consider. The backing of "qualified>
> engineers" for companies like Avaya, Cisco, etc. vs. the incredible>
> flexibility of an open source solution. There is also the possibility that>
> the open source flexibility would give a business some kind of competitive>
> advantage they would not normally have - depending on the nature of the>
> business. > > If you can find a "scrappy" consultancy that knows their stuff
> cold the open> source alternative may become very attractive. > > There is a
> lot of conjecture here.> > The most unfortunate thing is that a lot of
> companies are not interested in> taking the chance. They want something that
> says "Cisco" on it because they> think that is the only way they are
> guaranteed support.> > > -----Original Message-----> > From: Byron Pile
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:22 PM> > To:
> Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion> > Subject: RE:
> [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> > > > Once I get a better
> idea of what the telecom here provides in > > their contract it might be
> easier to see what I should > > include in the Asterisk based system.> > > >
> Is switchvox a proprietary system? Or are they based on > > Asterisk? They
> don't mention asterisk on the site anywhere. > > I've also noticed Digium
> offers a support service plan. > > Perhaps this with an estimated initial
> setup cost would be a > > good comparison to the telecom offering.> > > > I
> really want to highlight the flexibility and also feature > > set of
> Asterisk.> > > > Thanks again for your comments!> > > > > > > > > >
> ________________________________> > > > > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:34:22
> -0400> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [email protected]> >
> > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> > > > > >
> The bottom line is that you will save money or at the very > > least, over >
> > > the course of a year or two, break even. Considering some > > proposals I
> > > > did on NEC IPK systems several years ago, an eight port conference > >
> > bridge card was $5,000, another $5,000 for an eight port VoIP card > > >
> MGCP, $3,000 for a four port voicemail card, add some other feature > > > and
> you get the point. Also, support contracts were > > something to the > > >
> tune of $4 per port per month, that includes all ports (concurrent > > >
> voicemail access> > > + phones + PSTN + conference bridges). So lets say that
> "whatever" > > > company has 4 FXO, 16 FXS, and 4 voicemail, that is a total
> of 24 > > > ports X $4 = $96/mo X 12mo = $1,152 and that only included > >
> very specific limits.> > > > > > This is all free in Asterisk. You could
> purchase a > > Switchvox (or some > > > other turnkey) system pretty cheaply,
> have all of those > > costly add-on > > > features included, they offer
> support via SSH and over the > > phone, and > > > with IP, MACs are a breeze.
> A low level A+ tech can do it, unlike a > > > traditional system where a
> telephone guy has to come out > > with a butt > > > set, toner, and punch
> down tool. Most proprietary systems are not > > > exactly easy to program
> even in a "Turnkey" solution.> > > > > > You have many variables to look at
> but I think that your > > paper will be > > > a very interesting look into a
> paradigm shift.> > > > > > Thanks,> > > Steve> > > > > > Byron Pile wrote:> >
> > > I was going to assume that yes, there are Linux people on > > staff and >
> > > > that they could be taken away to set up and support asterisk. But > > >
> > because I was comparing it to a turnkey solution that > > most likely is >
> > > > including service as part of the contract, comparing it > > to a
> similar > > > > contract based asterisk setup makes more sense. However, I
> guess > > > > when starting this I was hoping to eliminate "license" > > fees
> from the > > > > open source solution, but if I'm using a small company, I >
> > think its > > > > more realistic to assume they don't have a support > >
> department ready > > > > to devote man hours to an asterisk system when they
> were using a > > > > turnkey solution before.> > > >> > > > Thanks for
> clarifying the handsets, I was considering using SIP > > > > phones in the
> case study, but thought it might be possible to > > > > "reuse" some existing
> equipment. This is also a > > technology upgrade in this case.> > > >> > > >
> I was going to assume that the workers were just as productive as > > > >
> before, but the ROI would come mostly from reduction in operating > > > >
> costs (hopefully). If they don't have any "linux people" > > on staff, > > >
> > this makes it harder to include some of the open source benefits > > > >
> like, fixing bugs, adding features and the other flexibility that > > > >
> Asterisk would provide over using the Norstar.> > > >> > > > Thanks for the
> response Steve, I have more research to do > > obviously!> > > >> > > >> > >
> >> > > > > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > >
> ----> > > > Subject: RE: [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk>
> > > > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:59:03 -0500> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >
> > > To: [email protected]> > > >> > > > For several varying
> quotes, one could go to www.buyerzone.com > > > > <http://www.buyerzone.com/>
> and put in exactly what you > > specified. > > > > You will get several
> vendors proposing different systems, prices, > > > > and most importantly,
> service contracts. It does cost each vendor > > > > about $25 dollars to buy
> your "lead" so be aware that you are > > > > costing them money by doing
> this. Whether or not that is > > ethical, is > > > > your decision. I am just
> pointing out that "one could do > > it". Make > > > > sure to include that
> you need a conference bridge that can handle > > > > unlimited callers, also
> unlimited voicemail ports, > > support SIP, and > > > > also consider
> scaling. That should freak them out.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Does
> "whatever" company have people on staff that know Linux and > > > > have time
> to learn and support Asterisk? What is the cost > > of taking > > > > them
> from what they usually would be doing to work on the > > Asterisk > > > >
> system?> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > I would suggest going with SIP phones
> and a four port FXO board. > > > > You could run both systems side by side
> until you are > > ready to cut > > > > over and then just switch your four
> POTs lines.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Most proprietary systems use digital
> sets so you cannot use a > > > > mutiport FXS board. I have used proprietary
> handset > > gateways such as > > > > Citel and my person experience was very
> very poor.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > How much ROI is going to depend on
> increased worker productivity > > > > which is fairly hard to figure out and
> also ongoing > > average costs of > > > > MACs (cost of Moves Adds Changes)
> as well as support contracts.> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Thanks,> > > >
> Steve Totaro> > > > http://www.asteriskhelpdesk.com> > > > KB3OPB> > > > > >
> > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------->
> > > > ----> > > >> > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > [mailto:[EMAIL
> PROTECTED] *On Behalf > > Of *Byron > > > > Pile> > > > *Sent:* Tuesday,
> March 20, 2007 5:28 PM> > > > *To:* [email protected]> > > >
> *Subject:* [asterisk-biz] case study on switching to Asterisk> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > I thought the biz list was most appropriate for this. > > Hope
> I'm not > > > > wrong!> > > >> > > > I'm trying to write a term paper on
> adopting an open > > source solution > > > > over a commercial solution and
> comparing the cost.> > > > Specifically if a legacy system is in use already,
> when will the > > > > initial investment of hardware for an asterisk based >
> > system pay off > > > > against the licensing fees of a proprietary system.
> After > > reading a > > > > good chunk of the free Asterisk book
> "Asterisk:The Future of > > > > Telephony" I think that Asterisk is an
> excellent topic for the > > > > paper.> > > >> > > > I'm new to telephony
> stuff so bear with me if my > > questions are a bit > > > > dumb, I've tried
> to do quite a bit of research and reading before > > > > posting to the mail
> lists. So my idea was to use the fake company > > > > "whatever" and they
> have 15 telephones and are currently using a > > > > Norstar ICS with 4
> incoming lines and 15 internal lines > > and I would > > > > like to switch
> this over to an asterisk based system.> > > >> > > > The reason for choosing
> the Norstar as this is a turnkey solution > > > > provided by a large local
> telecom so I will be able to get some > > > > pricing information for them
> fairly easily and I think it > > does what > > > > a 15 telephone small
> office might need...I'm open to a better > > > > suggestion if the Norstar is
> a poor choice.> > > >> > > > My quick questions are...is it possible that the
> handsets > > being used > > > > with a Norstar could be converted and used
> with the > > Asterisk system? > > > > (a bit of asset recovery)> > > >> > > >
> A system consisting of a suitable linux server running > > Asterisk and > > >
> > a Digium TDM2441B PCI Card 16FXS / 4FXO would be a suitable > > > >
> replacement and could deliver the same > > performance/functions as the > > >
> > Norstar system?> > > >> > > > I'm going to try and be as thorough as
> possible in assessing the > > > > costs in switching to this system. The most
> obvious being > > some new > > > > hardware, but also, downtime, training,
> support costs, contract > > > > penalties (if there are any) etc....But this
> is a term > > paper and a > > > > highly hypothetical situation. And I know
> my questions are a bit > > > > general, but the paper will probably be kept
> quite > > general. I hope I > > > > can learn more about this cool app!> > >
> >> > > > Thanks!> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > >
> ----> > > >> > > > Live Search Maps - find all the local information you
> need, right > > > > when you need it. Find it!> > > >
> <http://maps.live.com/?icid=wlmtag2&FORM=MGAC01>> > > >> > > > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > >
> ---- i'm making a difference. Make every IM count for the > > cause of > > >
> > your choice. Join now!> > > > > >
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