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Alright, so what does this (now mangled) thread have to do with
Asterisk again?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:20
PM
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] US$200
bounty for * paging feature
On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 09:01:56AM -0700, trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com said:
>
On Wed, 2005-04-20 at 09:36 -0400, Walt Reed wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr
19, 2005 at 06:24:09PM -0700, trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com said:
>
> > as a whole. I enjoy cheap computers, if it were not for
microsoft
> > > creating windows, making computers easier to use
for everyone, the mass
> > > production and highly competitive
hardware market would not exist. If
> > > that didnt happen
the $300 computer of today would likely not exist, and
> > > if it
did it would cost more like computers did 20 years ago, $2000+ for
>
> > a bare system.
> >
> > <rantmode>
>
>
> > Um, that's total bullshit. Low computer prices and "ease of
use" would have
> > existed if MS was never around. You completely
dismiss billions of man
> > hours of hard work by those outside MS
making advances in hardware and
> > software around the world. To
make a statement like that, you show a
> > total lack of knowledge of
the industry.
> >
>
> and hoiw many operating systems
were so popular during the 80s and early
> 90s? What operating
system shipped on almost every computer during that
>
period?
BTW, in the 80's, it wasn't windows - it was DOS (I know, well
before
your time.) Again, nobody could really compete with the IBM / MS
/
compaq x86 platform dominance, so the ONLY real choice on that
platform
was Dos, although there were a few specialty OS's and extensions
(OS/2,
QNX, Desqview/X, etc.) I realize you wouldn't know about them,
comming
into the game rather late. It wasn't until Windows 3.1 in the early
90's
that there was a relativly stable (if you could call it that)
windowing
system from MS (despite that other companies had been doing it
for many
years.) Bundling and restrictive contracts made it impossible
to
compete. Furthermore, (if you knew your history) MS had been doing
funny
things with DOS / and windows to make it difficult for other
windowing
systems and DOS clones to work with MS-DOS / Windows, further
cementing
their market dominance.
> I dont think I lack
understanding of the industry I think that I
> remember clearly that
windows was shipped on that, I think that whether
> or not it resulted
in an anti-trust conviction microsoft did make it
> easier for people to
use computers and thus more sold.
Again, your lack of experience with
and knowledge of other OS's shows
otherwise.
> I am sorry
that you are so bigioted to think that other operating
> systems
dominated the market during that period, and cant accept that
> windows
was the #1 operating system by a clear margin in terms of
> installed
systems.
Did I say they dominated? No. Please work on your reading
comprehention.
There was competition on the OS front, but it's hard to
knock out the
market leader, and impossible when they won't play fairly
(legally.)
> > > I have worked for over 10 years in the
software development industry and
> >
> > Then you entered
the industry far too late to know the real history of
> > computing,
have read too many MS revisionist history books, or were
> > hiding
under a rock.
> >
>
> I started using computers in
1976. I dont think I entered too late. As
> for reading MS
revisionist history books, no but I think that you have
> been readiung
too many anti-MS revisionist history books. The
> popularity of a
personal computer in the home was not made with cp/m it
> was not made
with coherent (a unix for the pc before linux was around).
> It was not
made by os/2, it was not made by any mac. Computers did not
>
fully become so incredibly popular until windows. look at any
>
historical sales reports and see when the numbers started increasing
>
dramatically.
Again, bundling, restrictive contracts, buying and
killing your
competition, sueing your competition, not working with
standardsm etc.
These are the things that created the dominance. You
can't possible
comprehend reality until you are willing to accept these
facts. BTW, if
you really started using computers in 76, in what capcity?
Playing Pong?
> Recall all the software shops that sold
software, why was it that at
> least 90% was for windows and the
remaining 10% for all other operating
> systems for a great many
years? Why did all the computer shows that
> were oh so popular
during that period sell mostly for the wintel
> platform?
That was not always true. If you REALLY have been professionally
using
computers since 76 (or even 1990) you would realize that this was
not
true until the early 90's.
> > For example, The
Amiga for example had a wonderful OS, great
> > multi-tasking,
awesome windowing interface etc. over 10 years before MS
>
> but
it never sold as well. You fail to understand that its sales
that
> drove the cost down. os/2 was better than windows at
multitasking too,
> but again it didnt sell so well. Granted there
was evilness by
> microsoft that resulted in antitrust convictions over
some of that but
> you just proved how clueless you are.
How many
times do I have to say it? Bundling, restrictive contracts,
unfair /
illegal business practices!!!
> You know nothing if you try to
bring up the amiga when we are talking
> about sales.
Um,
re-read my paragraph below that you had to move out of the way when
you
typed that.
> And you try to say that I dont know what I am
talking
> about?
Damn straight. Exactly. And your reading
comprehention sucks.
> > (some would argue longer.)
Comodore didn't have a chance against the
> > mighty combo of IBM,
MS, Compaq. and other x86 hardware and software
> > vendors in the
business world (the Amiga was originally designed as a
> > game
machine and could never escape the stigma AND had the same
> >
bone-headed single hardware source issue that Apple has. Poor
management
> > / marketing also contributed to the companies death.)
(Speaking of
> > Apple, it boggles the mind that it took them over 15
years to add
> > multi-tasking to their product line - and yes, I am
dismissing their
> > prior failed unix attempt.)
> >
> You make excuses for the fact that they didnt sell as well as
microsoft,
> and still try to insist that I dont know what I am talking
about when I
> say that MS sold more units which drove the cost down (I
specifically
> made that point in my previous
email).
Computers would have sold in similar numbers without
Windows / DOS.
Someone else would have taken their place, and it most
likely would have
been a better product. That, my friend, is the reality
you refuse to
accept. What you are claiming is that that nobody else could
have
possibly done the same thing. That's crap. As I pointed out,
superiour
technology existed YEARS yearlier. Bill just happened to be in
the right
place at the right time. Go read the history of MS-DOS and
learn.
> > MS has no effective competition due to their
illegal business practices,
> > killing off alternatives (BeOS is a
recent example) by pressuring large ISV's
> > to only write for the
Windows OS, restrictive contracts with hardware
> > vendors, and
other sleezy tactics. They effectivly killed Java on the
> > desktop.
They continue with a powerful FUD campaign against Linux,
> > Apple,
Firefox, etc. I could go on, and on, and on.
> >
> Yes and you
would be proving me right and that you have no clue when you
> say I am
wrong. Thanks for that.
I noticed that you didn't refute any of
my claims. Hmm.
> > publicly available documentation is a good
thing.) Unfortunately the
> > reality of business means that we have
to deal with this horrible
> > corporation and their aweful software.
MS and their single platform (for
> > servers and desktop anyway)
means that we are still saddled with the
> > horrible x86
architecture, the interrupt structure, bus, bios, etc.
> >
(essentially most everything about a PC.) By the way, that
architecture
> > is why it's so hard to make reliable hardware, why
we need an external
> > card to get a reliable timer device,
etc.
> >
>
> Deal with them? You started this out
by saying I was wrong that MS
> wasnt that big of a coimpany. Why
would you have to deal with them.
Again, your reading comprehention is
horrible. You can't even remeber
what you wrote above!!! I quote again:
if it were not for microsoft creating windows, making computers
easier
to use for everyone, the mass production and highly
competitive hardware
market would not exist.
This is the
prime statement I am disputing. Again, it totally dismissing
such basic
concepts as Moore's law, and dismisses all the work done by
everyone
outside of MS. I am NOT disputing that MS is a large company.
Nowhere did I
claim otherwise. You also dismissed my facts by ignoring
them.
>
Oh I get it you are clueless and just wanted to tell me I am wrong
>
becuase I said something good about MS and that affects your
religion.
No, it's simply because you made (and continue to make)
statements that
are untrue. As for religion, I am not the one making bogus
statements
that MS was the cause of all computer good.
> My
mistake I wont offend your religion anymore, even though as you
>
pointed out MS sold more units, and it was their operating system
>
(windows specifically) that made it easier for a great many people to
>
use computers, and as a result more systems sold which makes hardware
>
cheaper. I do love cheap hardware.
See above.
>
> Before you spout off about how great MS has been to the industry,
maybe
> > you should learn a little about that industry and it's
history first,
> > M-kay?
> >
>
> I learned
from you that I am right and you are nothing more than a bigot
> who
cant form a coherent argument to support his side, but can form one
> to
support the person he called an idiot.
Pot, meet kettle. You can
refute none of my statments, instead make
personal attacks. Go home little
boy. You are way out of your league.
Maybe some day you will grow up
enough to stop hiding behind an alias,
but then people would know just how
ignorant you really
are.
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