Just something I'd like to clarify: is it Aheeva that Peter was referring to as the proprietary platform that this obviously uninformed salesman is trying to sell?
I think that is what Andrew thinks, and I'm not sure if that is correct? Nabeel > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Kohlsmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: June 19, 2006 11:58 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] An Asterisk rant > > On Monday 19 June 2006 10:42, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > You guys have been great, but it looks like I've still got > a fight on > > my hands here trying to get an Asterisk solution for our > call centres. > > Anyone out there considering or using Aheeva CCS? If so, what are > > your experiences? > > Ask for a customer list, and do some calling. We are in the > middle of doing that for an ERP/MRP system. The results > are... interesting. > > > We still get the salesman for the other switch kicking Asterisk and > > Linux as a solution. I don't understand why there would be so much > > trouble trying to get a T1 to work. Supposedly there is a > company in > > Halifax trying to do a PO with Asterisk but not having much success. > > T1 and PRI with Asterisk in Canada with a standard LEC is > trivial. You might run into some backwater RBOC who are > playing silly bugger with their T1s and making life difficult > for its custmers but if you're going with > Bell/Telus/Sprint/GT/etc. you have *absolutely* nothing to > worry about. It's a scare tactic, so call him on it. Ask > for their phone number. > > > This is also a bit of a rant so some positive reinforcement > would be > > appreciated. I now have a list of eight reasons why we need two > > switches and seven of why this should be Asterisk. I can't really > > post those unless I make them more generic. > > My biggest points for Asterisk are as follows: > > - Open Source. If shit breaks (and it always does) I can > either dig in or find someone to do it. Commercial solutions > are locked in and the support contracts are EXPENSIVE. > > Stability would be the same as the proprietary vendors if I > were sane and ran Asterisk 1.2.x instead of svn trunk, but > trunk is pretty damn stable in my experiences and I can > quickly roll back to a known working system in the even that > trunk went tits-up for some reason. And I can still get a > bug fixed in the stable version of Asterisk, which you can't > do with a proprietary vendor. > > - Open Source. No forced upgrade treadmill or forced > obsolescence, BOTH of which I've run into with proprietary > vendors (Nortel Flash, anyone?) > > - Open Source. If I want a feature I can do it myself or pay > someone to do it. I don't have to accept "almost" solutions > from a commercial vendor that sort of do what I want, and if > I want something that doesn't exist, I don't have to take > "no" for an answer, especially if I'm trying to integrate my > systems with something they see as a competitive system. > (I'm looking again at you, Nortel!) > > - Open Source. My userbase and technical base are many times > larger than Aheeva can ever hope to achieve for the same > price. I can draw on the experiences and knowledge (and put > up with the attitudes of) a VERY diverse crowd of people, > including those who have 25+ years of telcom experience. I > can access some cross section of these people 24 hours a day, > seven days a week. I can cultivate business relationships > with a number of these and achieve a level of service that > Aheeva would charge a fortune for. > > - Open Protocols, Open Hardware. My T1 card doesn't cost > $1400 and come with a $750 (I think) software key to let me > use PRI, and STILL limit me from using Q.Sig because it's > considered a threat. I can pay another $750 for a key to get > me proprietary, bastardized Q.Sig which will ONLY let me > interoperate with other Nortel KSUs. So for a sweet-ass deal > of $2900+tax I get a one-time install of a shitty T1 card > with limited CCS signaling capability. Or I could spend $500 > and get a truly useful card. My phones cost about the same > as a proprietary solution, but I have far more flexibility > and can target specific users with better-suited phones, use > softphones, remote phones, etc. I can tie in my contact > database and CRM applications without playing silly bugger > with my data or having to try and make MY solution fit THEIR > way of thinking, or with a limited, Win32-only TAPI interface > that doesn't quite suit my needs but I have to put up with. > > So what you are picking out of my rant (besides my vitriol > for proprietary systems, Nortel and NEC in particular) is > that with proprietary vendors you are at their mercy, and > they know it. They aren't as flexible, and they try and buy > your loyalty by carrying on about how long they've been in > business, how many engineers they have on staff (how many are > available at 3am?), how big some of their customers are, how > slick their limited management and reporting interfaces are, > etc. It's all smoke and mirrors because the second you need > something they don't have, it's "too bad." > > I can see farther because I stand on the shoulders of giants. > That is simply not possible with proprietary systems. They > gain when they keep me tied to them and not knowing how the > internals work. (Why would I ever want that? > Can't you see our system does everything? Just sit back, let > me show you this awesome presentation!) > > It is difficult to sell flexibility, especially when the > bean-counters don't see a need for it. I have been *VERY* > fortunate in that the president here sees potential and while > it's not needed right now, he can see that the way businesses > communicate is changing, and changing fast. He sees that we > have to wait for the proprietary vendors to a) see the trend, > b) wake up and recognize it as a potential revenue stream, c) > determine that it's a big enough revenue stream to do > something about it, d) learn how to take advantage of it, e) > design it and test it, f) market it and g) get distribution > to recognize it so h) we can actually buy the shit. By the > time that's done it's too late. With Open Source and > Asterisk I can jump directly to e) and have a pass/fail > before the proprietary vendor even knows it exists. > > I work for a manufacturer, so I know the costs involved in > bringing proprietary systems to market and also how much real > support costs. I can see how to leverage open source in a > proprietary marketplace and how to use it to help us make > more money and provide better service at the same time. I > can see how to not only USE open source, but how to also give > back and help the next guy see a little farther. I spend a > lot of time on IRC and the lists helping out people that > won't ever directly pay us back, but that's not how open > source and community efforts work. We're saving a lot on our > communications infrastructure, and we take some of those > savings and give back to those who have helped us save it. > > Another perfect example here: This past Saturday Bell > introduced 10-digit dialing. Instead of staying at work late > to reprogram everything so the faxes and service pagers would > work, I modified my Asterisk dialplan in 10 minutes from my > home computer over the VPN to automatically add the area code > to any 7-digit number. I then went a step further and > configured it so as long as the system saw 10 digits, it > would automatically add the '1' for long distance. If it saw > 11 it would strip the '1' if it wasn't LD. The system > automatically does the right thing and our relative quality > of office happiness is up because there aren't 30 people > cursing the change. The faxes go through, the calls go > through, and everything "just works." > > I don't know Aheeva's system well enough to comment > authoritatively, but I'm willing to bet that it'd take longer > than 10 minutes to do, and that unless you bought the > equivalent of a FastRAD or remote management option (and then > bought the proprietary software to use it as well!), you > wouldn't be able to do it from remote. You'd be sitting at > your desk (or the attendant desk) screwing about with the > phone on a 2x16 display and a user manual full of arcane > procedures after-hours when the weather was beautiful and you > should have been in a hammock with a beer watching your son > mow the lawn. > > Another example with our customer service guys: There are 6 > guys who share the responsibilities of the 24h service line. > They keep who's on duty in a shared Outlook calendar. We run > Exchange4Linux, which replaces Exchange Server with a lot of > Python and PostgreSQL. The Asterisk box checks for new > voicemail to the service phone every 10 minutes and if any > are found, sends out a page to whoever's on duty. It checks > the service calendar and grabs their pager/phone number. > > How flexible is the Aheeva system, or any other proprietary > system? Can they integrate how YOU want it to integrate? We > poll instead of firing off on hangup of new voicemail so that > if they sleep through the page it will keep nagging them. We > did this because we actually had that problem occasionally > and this was a better solution. Can the Aheeva (or any other > proprietary > system) make that kind of a subtle change to better serve > your needs, or does it simply have a "notification feature" > that is fixed? Can you tie into your CRM or do you have to > piss around with the system to change the pager # every time > the person on call changes? (or do you have to play "pass > the pager"?) > > Another example (in progress) is a customer I'm working > with... his IVR and dialplan logic is very, very complex with > time of day, holidays, bluetooth presence, remote > extensions/home offices, click-to-call, callback queues, > everything... it will be *sweet* when it's done, and likely > a good meeting topic. The entire reason he went with > Asterisk is because he is also someone who can see that his > needs are going to be highly dynamic and that a proprietary > system just doesn't have the flexibility or *ease* of flexibility. > > > It's a "dammed if we do/dammed if we don't" scenerio. If > we go with > > the Asterisk solution, then its more stress on me if something goes > > wrong. For health reasons, I need to try to avoid that. > Aheeva would > > be there for backup though. They have a lot of engineers on staff. > > Find a few local Asterisk consultants and ask them what > they'd charge to be on call. It's the exact same world, you > just need to think in a more distributed fashion. Stop > thinking "single source" and start thinking community -- > develop some business relationships with the people on this > list and on the Digium lists, forums and openprojects.net > #asterisk IRC channel. > > And again... how many Aheeva engineers are on staff at 3am. > Hell our Xerox support is still on MINIMUM 2h waiting period, > and that's only if he's not already tied up serving others in > the area. Why not pay a couple of Asterisk consultants a > retainer and have them on-call? Hell, if they were smart > they'd say "take this Nagios module and plug it into your > Asterisk box. I'll get paged before you even know there's a problem." > > There's another trend that the big guys are still in stage b) > about. Hell, Xerox doesn't even do that with their $30k > copiers, and they're net-connected. > > -A. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For > additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >
