Tom:
my own situation is pretty similar to yours ... we have 5
locations ... the most handsets we have at any one site is 6 ... the other sites
have maybe 2 handsets each and maybe a Linksys ATA or two ... and of course we
are nerds so have a mix of Windows, Linux and Mac workstations/servers
... for my own rather simple internal requirements, I do much same as
you and it works ok ...
now put yourself in the position of having
sold an implementation to a client ... typical small business office
setting with maybe 8 to 12 seats ... you will probably be dealing
with a 4 FXO port TDM card, 4 analog line system .. chances are there will not
be a VoIP service provider involved ... you will have maybe 8 to 12 SIP
phones/ata's to deal with ... because they only have a single dynamic IP address
on their DSL line to the Internet, supporting the site remotely using ssh will
be unlikely ... you must assume such a client will be Windows oriented so
when you are on site supporting the system, you will not have access to a
Linux box except your Astlinux server ... any installation or support
will have to be done via the Astlinux web based admin console probably using IE6
as the client ... this is where the current limitations of Astlinux jumps up and
bites you on the butt ... and this is the situation I find myself in now
...
I have installed a few Astlinux systems professionally but
so far have not made a dime on them ... they have been done at a loss just to
get a few of them out there so we can start getting an idea of how to price the
install and support in such a way as to make a fair profit ... we are fortunate
to have a few clients who were willing to be test subjects for us as long as it
did not disrupt their business or cost an arm and a leg ... basically, we had
the client put up the money for the hardware and a token installation fee which
did not nearly cover the manpower cost to implement ... but this gives
us a few of them on the street to benchmark so we can develop a pricing
model that we think will work for both us and the client ...
at this point, it looks like it can be done for a price
that is quite competitive with a typical small office KSU and generate a fair
profit ... with the advent of feature rich SIP phones at decent prices, we are
starting to look very competitive price wise with the low to mid range Panasonic
and Samsung KSU's ... so I am hopeful that this might turn out to be a profit
center for us at some point in the near future instead of just being a group of
nerds paying with a new toy ...
the only area where we are presently spending way too
much time on site is phone provisioning ... I expect to spend some time
setting up a proper dialplan, particularly the IVR system ... this goes with the
territory and is similar with a conventional KSU/Auto Attendant setup ... but
with a conventional KSU, all you gotta do is plug the proprietary phone into the
wall and the darn thing works ... not so when you might be choosing from between
10 vendors of SIP phones who each sell 5 unique models ...
I would agree with you that the more limited you make your
choices, the simpler the install gets ... we have discussed limiting our clients
to the Aastra phones that we like and setting up our template system to support
that line of phone and that line only ... if you go that route, things get a lot
simpler to deal with ... but I am not sure I want to limit my client's options
... if the client really wants a Cisco or Snom or whatever, I would like to be
able to deal with it easily ...
I think that a simple provisioning system should not be all
that complex ... think about the steps you take now to get your own phones up
and running and put those capabilities into the existing Admin web interface ...
assume you will be sitting at a Windows console with the CD you brought
from the office and get the configurations you worked on at the office until 2am
onto your client's Astlinux server quickly and efficiently without disrupting
his business operations ... then get out of there and send him a bill
...
That to me that represents what we should be shooting for
... keep it simple but make it effective and easy to use ... a single web based
point of access to admin functions including boosting the binary and text
configuration files required to provision your chosen phones ... forget about
SCP (it aint there), forget about grabbing the USB key and sticking it in a
workstation to configure (Windows wont be able to read/write to it) ...
gotta be able to do it from a Windows workstation using IE6 (that's what
the client is going to have on site) ... I think that even the smallest client
system consisting of only a handful of phones would benefit from such
consideration when viewed from a commercial implementation standpoint instead of
pure experimentation ...
I made a big point of using Selintra/Sail as an example
because these guys really deserve some credit for pushing the envelope on what
can be done to make phone provisioning really slick ... but their solution is
"over the top" from the more simplistic Astlinux point of view ... Please do not
over complicate it but think about how to make an "install for hire" at a small
business client quicker/better/cheaper ... if we focus on that goal,
we are being true to the basic design goals of Astlinux and moving the product
closer to being commercially practical
...
G.Hendershot
From: Tom Lynn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 2:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of AstLinux - Asterisk on Compact Flash
Subject: Re: [Astlinux-users] Phone provisioning
Before attempting it, I'd want to have some knowledge of how many stations are implemented in AstLinux systems.
A high, low and average value.
You need to establish the amount of work saved vs. the amount of development effort expended. In your opinion, what is the threshold at which your effort pays off? 10, 50, 100 stations?
FWIW, I set up the secondary http server, which is all that is required for my Avaya phones. Drop in the config files via SCP and the occasional firmware update and there's not much more that I need except a text editor.
That said, I've only a handful of phones.
Tom
On 10/22/06, Gary G.
Hendershot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
I have not found the phone provisioning in FreePBX/TrixBox to be all that
great ... Its better than nothing which is what we have in Astlinux right
now, but it aint all that slick either ... I seem to recall that they did a
pretty nice job of supporting Cisco phones out of the gate but that was it
... But at least they have a mechanism to permit the administrator to push
config files up to the server and to edit text config files ... That is
significant and is kind of what I hope we can get to with Astlinux ...
Now these guys do phone provisioning well ...
There is an Asterisk implementation done by an outfit called Selintra in
Britain that is called Sail ... It is designed to run on the SME v7.x Linux
distribution ... These guys have gone all out when it comes to phone
provisioning ... They have a very slick template system that a smarter than
average Admin can edit to add his/her phone brands into but it comes with
templates for many of the most popular built in ... This is about the
slickest job of handling phone provisioning I have seen in an Asterisk
package ... Far superior to what FreePBX does now ...
But alas, Selintra/Sail requires a pretty much conventional Linux server to
run on ... I think it requires PERL, Apache and MySQL very similar to
FreePBX ... So there is no way to get it to run on appliance type hardware
... The minimum system requirements are just way beyond what you are going
to find in your typical small form factor no moving parts type system ...
What do we need in Astlinux ...
If we had a provisioning system in Astlinux that was as slick as what is in
Selintra/Sail, that would be a dream come true IMHO ... But I would be quite
happy with something much simpler and easier to implement/maintain if that
turned out to be the direction the developers decided to go ... I would be
very pleased if they used the FreePBX model and just gave us a reliable way
to upload our config files to the proper locations on the server and easily
navigate to and edit the text based config files ... The templating system
is slick, but would require someone to devote a lot of effort to keeping it
up to date and current ... I am not sure that manpower is available to this
project ...
I hope that anyone taking up the challenge to work on phone provisioning in
Astlinux will give a hard look at what TrixBox and Selintra/Sail are doing
... While neither of these system would easily transfer directly to
Astlinux due to dependencies, they are addressing the problem in very
creative ways ...
G.Hendershot
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of canuck15
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2006 12:17 PM
To: 'Discussion of AstLinux - Asterisk on Compact Flash'
Subject: Re: [Astlinux-users] Phone provisioning
Got any better suggestions? Until I find something else that is better (and
free) I am stuck with FreePBX. It does everything I could ever possibly
want it to do.
If someone thinks it is not flexible enough to support most if not all
custom configurations they probably don't know how to use it properly.
Configuring from scratch may be good for personal satisfaction, ego or
whatever but not very practical for a lot of people, businesses, and
applications.
I am not disagreeing that the requirement for MySQL, Perl, and Apache are
overkill for many installations. It does work quite well for more
complicated setups and again, there is nothing else out there that is free
and even comes close to it's sophistication and ease of use.
-----Original Message-----
From: IPC Solutions [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 3:09 PM
To: Discussion of AstLinux - Asterisk on Compact Flash
Subject: Re: [Astlinux-users] Phone provisioning
Thanks FreePBX for forcing me to learn how to configure Asterisk from
scratch.
HORRIBLE is the word.
Totally agree.
Michael Knill
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kristian
Kielhofner
Sent: Friday, 20 October 2006 6:25 AM
To: Discussion of AstLinux - Asterisk on Compact Flash
Subject: Re: [Astlinux-users] Phone provisioning
Paul Davidson wrote:
>
> I agree- plists would be a nice match. My concern, especially in the
> case of something like astlinux, but in general, is the use of scripts
> to 'bring older configs up to date'. I don't wanna- I want the
> system to use what's there, let me make arbitrary changes directly to
> the configuration files, and still be able to deal with it. I know,
> it's a picky, lofty goal- perhaps even impossible. But I look at it
> as- I can represent the same dialplan 10 different ways or more, and
> Asterisk interprets it correctly, every time- so why can't a
> configuration
tool?
> I see it as a perfect fit for astlinux, as it's use is more aimed at
> small environments, with beginning administrators, or no administrator
> at all. Someone who installs asterisk in an environment like that
> needs a simple interface, but may grow into more advanced
> development- and the last thing I would recommend to them is to lock
> themselves in to a particular configuration tool, or style.
>
> I will keep my eye on it, and I'll also burn some brain power as to
> how I might get my evil, er, stated goals accomplished. At some
> point, I may put together a collection of some of the more bizarre
> Asterisk configs, so I can feed them into a parser and see what jumps out.
>
> -pbd
>
pbd,
I like your style. FreePBX (or whatever they are calling that GUI)
has some major problems that keep it out of AstLinux:
1) HUGE software dependencies. Why do you need MySQL, perl, etc, etc for a
simple web interface?
2) Inflexibility. They also force a given style of configuration on you.
If you are not able to accomplish your Asterisk goals within that framework,
too bad. You're out of luck and you're back to editing config files by
hand. Unfortunately, now you are editing HORRIBLE config files that are so
abstracted you're better off starting from scratch...
I really like how you are approaching this. Let me know if you need
anything, anything at all.
--
Kristian Kielhofner
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