alban wrote:

Dave and Cath wrote:
Perhaps there are two types of glider pilots - those that like to spin, and those that don't.

And if you don't, You need a check flight!

I wouldn't go that far; Whether or not someone *likes* spinning perhaps isn't terribly relevent.

The problem this recent discussion has revealed (which is, for what
it's worth, the same problem that -all- of these discussions reveal)
is that people who don't *like* spinning communicate the belief that
spinning is inherently unsafe.

Which is plainly stupid.

More people in Australia hurt themselves during heavy landings than
spins;  yet I don't see anyone on this list suggesting that landing
is inherently dangerous and that we should remove it from the
training curriculum, nor do I see people asserting that some types
are more difficult than others to land and therefore should be banned
from import into Australia, nor do I see anyone here saying they're
afraid of landing and try to avoid it wherever possible.

I'm putting forth that obviously absurd simile to illustrate the
nonsensical nature of the discussion we've just spent most of a week
having.  Perhaps some of the protagonists would like to ponder on
the parallels between the previous paragraph and some of the views
which have been expressed in here of late...

Some people are negative-G sensitive, and feel intensely uncomfortable
in reduced G, and feel like it's unsafe.  They'll use all kinds of
alarming words to communicate that fear to third parties.  I know my
partner does -- I cringe when she starts talking to visiting AEFs
about the final stages of a winch launch immediately after we release
the cable, because I know it scares the bejezus out of her and that
she's about to use a selection of words which will create an impression
of danger and foreboding in the mind of the visitor before they even
strap themselves in to the glider.  How they hell are they supposed
to have fun with that introduction?

I think something similar happens when some people who don't like
spinning talk about spins.  They don't like it, they feel uncomfortable,
they feel unsafe.  Nobody likes being fearful without a good reason,
so they rationalize that fear by telling everyone it's dangerous.

... and I really wish they wouldn't.

Remember:   "elevated risk"    is not a synonym of    "danger"

Considering the number of incident-free spins which are carried
out in Australia (and, for that matter, the rest of the world) every
year, it's pretty difficult to mount a compelling safety case to
suggest that spin training is dangerous.  Yet the irrational fear
persists, and people will continue to waste weeks of their lives
debating its merits in forums like this one...

  - mark

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