Nick,
To be totally politically incorrect and ridicules
If we want to attract young guys along we need to employ
young blond lycra suited model types to run the rope and wings.
Then again they (the young men) may not want to do much flying with
all the "action" on the ground.
My serious question is to the forum members who are members of the "MAD
Committee" What are you guys doing about this question, you were
formed to address it? Or is a case of another committee that keeps
minutes and wastes hours.
SDF
PS - Easter - lets forget the club politics and go flying.
Have a happy and safe Easter everyone.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick
Gilbert
Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2005 5:18 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] mining past glider pilots
>Ian Said : "The comment that OFFITTH's put young people off gliding is
> >crap, look at the other issues first, I'm sure that the young person
>doesn't >give up just because the people are old, there are to many other
>reasons >that need to be addressed."
I must disagree with you Ian. OFITTH's DO put young people off gliding. And
it is not that "They give up just because the people are old", they dont
start. They turn up for a Joyflight or a flight with a friend, and they
leave.
The time it takes in between flights will go much faster if you have similar
people to spend it with. I have taken many friends flying (people around my
age so sub 30), and without repeating the various words used they all ask me
how I can stand to spend all day surrounded by old men.
The problem is perfectly displayed in Camden where I grew up. On a weekend,
the young people go to the same 2 or 3 pubs, and the older people go to 1 or
2 bowling clubs / RSL's. People like to spend their leisure time with
like-minded people.
Nick.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patching" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] mining past glider pilots
>I think it is interesting to note that people talk about the demise of
>gliding and some even put their finger on the trouble but then get a bit
>confused with the next part, ie coming up with smart ways to address the
>issue.
> I've said it before and I'll say it again... The big factor in not
> retaining people in our sport is TIME not COST or OFITTH. Now you can all
> think of the problems that this comment should cover. For example, sitting
> around waiting for a flight, being gone all day from the family etc etc.
>
> Some clubs have addressed this problem by instituting new ideas, ie buying
> a 2 seater for TIF's alone and rostering people for that role, then
> booking people to a time schedule
>
> Increasing the number of days the club operates, the clubs at BCS have
> introduced friday flying and are seriously considering mondays as well.
> Gympie have wednesday and reports are that members are enjoying the
> opportunity to fly mid week. Less stress on family committments.
>
> Introducing packages for training. In this world the issue as I have said
> isn't cost. BUT if you join a club to learn to fly it wears thin when it
> takes over a year to go solo. No wonder people drop out. I have spoken
> with many clubs who see the benefit of running courses BUT getting around
> to it is one of the hardest things to do. I believe that if clubs
> advertised they would fill up to 3 courses per year with say 6 trainees
> who, in a week of flying would get very close to solo. People would be
> happy to pay the cost if they could see quicker results. The off weekends
> could then be used for consolidation and advanced training of the recent
> pilots and give the instructors the opportunity to even do their own
> thing. The opportunity to retain members would rise as people would see a
> better return for their money. They would also gain better credence with
> friends, work mates who invariably ask "hows the gliding going, what Not
> solo yet, how long should it take"
> No wonder we don't retain members.
>
> The comment that OFFITTH's put young people off gliding is crap, look at
> the other issues first, I'm sure that the young person doesn't give up
> just because the people are old, there are to many other reasons that need
> to be addressed.
> I'm off flying for the next couple of days, I look forward to the
> comments.
> Cheers all
> Ian P
> Happy Easter.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: " Christopher Mc Donnell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 2:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] mining past glider pilots
>
>
>>I agree with what Emilis has said as it matches my own experiences and I
>>may
>> be the 1 in 300 he cited.
>>
>> Peter Creswick said "not up there in the "cool" things to do on a
>> weekend".
>>
>> Historically the "air mindedness" of the community that existed for most
>> of
>> the last century and fed gliding is gone.
>> I still participate because of the airmindedness of my generation and
>> then
>> rarely on weekends because I have another life related to family, friends
>> &
>> other interests and that is the only free time that they have.
>>
>> Ever been labelled "antisocial" because of the time commitment required
>> by
>> gliding? Ever wonder if the emergence of powered gliders might be driven
>> by
>> this?
>>
>> I am not optimistic as to the future of gliding as I feel it is heading
>> to
>> be a very rich persons sport only, as even dinghy sailing has done, but I
>> am
>> going to enjoy it while it lasts.
>>
>> Chris McDonnell
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Emilis Prelgauskas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2005 3:07 PM
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] mining past glider pilots
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 07:00:25 +1000, Robert Hart wrote:
>>> >I believe that the ex-glider pilot group is one to which we should
>>> >be marketing.
>>>
>>>
>>> >From the work that has been done at some clubs and within one region
>>> in 'exit surveying' glider pilots leaving the sport, the problems
>>> have been to get truthful answers.
>>> The responses were more in the 'nice' form - 'family commitments',
>>> etc.
>>> It was impossible to get a sample that gave valid data on cost or
>>> access or failure to meet expectations and what these might be as
>>> barriers to participation.
>>>
>>> This scatter was overlaid by the 'noise' of consumers seeking best
>>> price - 'that other club is cheaper' where the pilot then didn't
>>> shift to the other club, but exited the sport.
>>> (the other club was further away, the ambit claim was more for the
>>> home club to lower its fees)
>>>
>>>
>>> There is a belief, but without backing evidence, that exiting glider
>>> pilots fit into the following categories -
>>>
>>> - young people moving into career development or family formation
>>> phases of their life; where it is hoped they will return once
>>> established. And some do.
>>> But the ROI is so poor (1 in 300 trainees) that I exited that field
>>> after 15 years in it.
>>>
>>> - And I am still contacted on a regular cycle by a number of
>>> ex-glider pilots (between 30 and 60 in age) with 'let me know when
>>> you're flying next; 'cause I want to come out to get back into
>>> gliding'; but after a dozen offers of mid week and weekend days
>>> declined by them because of 'family commitments' I stop offering.
>>>
>>> - there are ex-glider pilots who found that wearing the flight jacket
>>> just doesn't pull the birds at the party the way it did in past
>>> generations
>>>
>>> - that there are a group of ex-glider pilots who were alienated from
>>> the sport by its archaic structure giving little flying for large
>>> time investment against a background of family quality time demands
>>> on them.
>>>
>>> The last group would need to be reassured that the gliding they want
>>> is available on demand with the sport providing the current
>>> generation fleet, surround social scene, ground facilities and
>>> support, ease of access to equipment which makes the place attractive
>>> both for their own flying and not to be embarrassed to bring their
>>> friends.
>>>
>>> The embarrassment comes in diverse forms: the untidy facilities (no
>>> where to sit out of the heat) and fleet, the access restrictions
>>> which make them look bad in front of their friends (public critique
>>> of their status to type rating, check flight, flight list placing,
>>> aircraft not actually available when booked).
>>>
>>> The practical problems that this raises for the sport are:
>>> - the capital costs and at what the charge levels would have to be
>>> set
>>> - the possibility that we need to accept a higher prang rate in
>>> return for giving people less onerous access to the sport.
>>> (Callers for passenger flights still include sizeable numbers that
>>> assume they will be given a single seater to go off and play in just
>>> as seen on TV)
>>>
>>> In one club structure where all the support was offered if the pilot
>>> came with their own glider (to cover the prang rate issue), the
>>> response was outrage because exiting glider pilots feel the sport
>>> should continue to offer everything at traditional charges as in the
>>> past; just add in the professional ground staff and adequate numbers
>>> of current generation equipment at no extra charge to meet their
>>> expectations.
>>> >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:15:43 +1030
>>> From: Emilis Prelgauskas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: P & W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> X-Mailer: PocoMail 2.64 (1133) - Licensed Version
>>> X-Account: My Account
>>> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:15:43 +1030
>>> In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Subject: Re: List as requested
>>> Mime-Version: 1.0
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>> Status: RQ
>>>
>>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:52:26 +1030, P & W wrote:
>>> >Please find attached the list we spoke of
>>> >Regards P&W
>>> >
>>>
>>> With my thanks, a copy of your list will go to Chris bailey, and I'll
>>> use the contacts for the documents issue for the first 4 main trades
>>> (plumbing, site work, concrete, timber frame)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
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>
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