Some airspace ownership is bluff too. Try approaching a US carrier group in "we are not here mode" in our G class airspace, and you will quickly find "might is right" rules being applied.
I know of at least one GA pilot who has had to change his trousers following an encounter - PA31 V 2 F14 - ok I'm out of here - bastards. SDF -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA) Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 7:50 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: RE: Airspace WAS: [Aus-soaring] RE: Near misses -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Graeme Cant Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 10:44 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Airspace WAS: [Aus-soaring] RE: Near misses >From: "Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > While I have no real arguments against the rest of Graham's post, >this is a statement that I have seen before on other mailing lists and >it simply aint so. You're quite right about the practice but I was talking more about the legal principles underlying airspace law. In much of the EU, I understand (I'm not a lawyer), the government "owns" all the airspace and "releases" it to the public as it sees fit. In the US and Australia (and probably the UK but I'm not sure), the law allows the government to take over airspace at will but it's publicly available unless declared otherwise. ____________________________________ No, this is simply not true. The legal basis is the same. We are all signatories to the same conventions. The alphabet airspace which we proceed towards slowly is ICAO (ie chiefly European rules) The US applies the same rules (with stated areas of non compliance cos they, like Australia, have to be seen to be their own masters) As for Eastern Europe (I just picked Lithuania as it was the first one I thought of) http://www.ans.lt/en/aip/aip.htm (go to the "enroute, ATC classification" tab.) By the way, this looks almost exactly like the German and French equivalent documents and not too different from the Australian one, except the Australian one is much bigger and not in two languages. Appears though, they use a normal ICAO type classification there too. Just the same as us. I'm guessing that most/all East European states apply these rules too but I'm not going to check every country. Eg Lithuania: "Class G: IFR and VFR flights are permitted and receive flight information service as far as is practical. Continuous two-way communication with appropriate AFIS unit is required for flights within TIZ and TIA" Nothing special required to aviate in their class G, no forms to fill out for the commisars. AH HA ! see it says they "permit" folks to fly there (ergo the government owns the airspace) But of course the Australian equivalent says: "2.1.6 In class G airspace, IFR and VFR flights are permitted. IFR flights receive traffic information and a flight information service. VFR flights receive a flight information service if requested." Note that our government seems to "permit" us to fly here too. What was the difference again? There are no maps with "non free flight areas" on them. There are no "government authorised" clubs anymore. There hasn't been for 15 years or so in the east. There never was in the west. Our governments are all signatories to the same agreements at a high level and at a lower level our operational documents appear almost word for word interchangeable. > The East European system - in fact much of Western Europe too - is >that all airspace is forbidden unless specifically declared open. **Their airspace is no more "forbidden" than ours.** SWK ********************************************************************** This email and any file attachments are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please tell us immediately by return email and delete the document. The information in this email expresses the opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the views of ETSA Utilities. ********************************************************************** _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
