Well I think it takes a lot of effort to be around some people who fly gliders,
and that is more than some are prepared to do.....
JR
----- Original Message -----
From: Ashford, John
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] pause for thought
Yes, that comment struck a chord with me also. It does take a lot of effort
to be a glider pilot and that is more than most people are prepared to do these
days.
regards
John Ashford
Maintenance Supervisor, Dullingari / Cross Border
Santos Ltd
PO Box 1010
Bne 4001
Ph 08 8678 4751
Fax 08 8678 4740
Mob 0409 679 867
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From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Kidd
Sent: Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] pause for thought
Thanks for that info Mike
That was very interesting.
But I don't think some Hangie's (perhaps isolated) perception of Sailplane
Instruments is the biggest problem that the GFA faces ... however it is perhaps
symptomatic. (But surely they will get turned on by Mike's latest stuff).
For one, try the fact that we are often perceived as a bunch of old pharts
hanging around a "Club", doing "Clubcentric" things, flying seldom and when we
do we fly locally in old worn-out and dilapidated machines.
For two, try the fact that the above is often reinforced by the passion of
many Clubs to use Blaniks or similar to promote the sport to the uninitiated.
Now the Blanik is a fine & worthy servant of the movement but they are hardly
the equipment that will make potential new members bar-up.
For three, try the fact that I was talking to a fellow the other day who
proudly told me that he has 750 GFA instructing hours and has never been
cross-country.
For four, try the fact that the way membership is going, the GFA will soon
perhaps have more "departments" and will have undertaken more "restructures"
than members.
Something surely needs to be done to give the sport some "spark" and anything
that makes us pause for thought along those lines is certainly worthwhile, but
a switch to Hang Glider like instruments is not that cure.
I was however struck by Emilis's final para that said " And I have to admit
to a personal ambivalence in participating in a Gen Y/grey nomad focused event
where I get to prep/wash/DI the sailplane and get it to the launch point so
that the user group can stroll out from airconditioned ease to be chauffered
around the sky; only to be judged primarily on being 'retro' (love that word)."
Now that IS pause for thought.
Regards Geoff
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Borgelt
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in
Australia.
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] pause for thought
LOL! Calling modern sailplane instruments retro is funny coming from
one who flys an aircraft that would be instantly recognisable by Otto
Lilienthal if you brought him back.
Old Otto would probably think it was the 1907 model of his hang
gliders, not a 2007 model. I guess it helps if you don't know any history.
Tim, you are wrong, they would not have won a contest this side of
1930 not 1960. I believe the best rigid wing hang gliders are up
around the performance of the Grunau Baby, which when it was first
built (around 1932?) was not considered a competition sailplane,
just a secondary training glider.
I had a bit to do with the hang gliding community in South Australia
from 1979 to about 1988. Also designed and built a few different hang
glider instruments and repaired a few others. It is quite a different
environment for the engineering and you really need to have deep
background in the activity to do it properly. I gave up because the
hangies ideas on instrumentation were so primitive. I had some more
contact with them in 1996 just as the first hang gliders with no top
kingposts were appearing. They were looking at GPS logging at the
time(after it was adopted in gliding).The new hang gliders were
regarded as frightfully expensive in the $8000 to 10,000 range when a
kingpost model cost $5000-6000. I was told the new ones would never
catch on due to the price. I'm not sure you can still buy the old model.
LCD's, graphics displays and integrated GPS, loggers etc first
appeared in sailplane instruments, not hang glider instruments.
If you think glider instruments are "retro" perhaps you think of your
instruments as fashion statements rather than functional items or all
you've been exposed to is the average club trainer.
I had a look at the Flytek instruments. We could have done an LCD
pointer on the B400 and B500. It actually is cheaper and uses less
power but we chose the stepper driven white pointer on black
background because it gives the best contrast under all light
conditions and at 150 steps per knot the instrument resolution isn't
limited by the stepper resolution.
The basic variometer resolution is about 0.01 knots on a B500 and
about 0.04 knots on a B400. I can't tell the difference. An LCD
pointer would have meant a best resolution of 0.4 knots and some seem
to use about 1 knot steps. I consider this unacceptable. Then we
could use the nice coloured LED's for speed command and other
functions. Note we use a nice diffuser in front of the LED too.
I notice the top of the line Flytek had a pointer on circular dial
LCD vario . The reason is that you get the longest scale for a
compact size. You also get an angle change which is very easy to
discern. Looking at some ultralight instruments the other day it
seems about half of the manufacturers simply synthesise what looks
like a steam gauge panel on a large LCD.
OTOH the HUD in the F/A18 just uses numbers for airspeed and altitude
and seems perfectly fine to use. I wouldn't want a vario like that though.
What the top of the line Flytek doesn't appear to have is a moving
map, certainly not as the primary flight display. Smart folks!
If you want to see a real sunlight readable LCD go to your local boat
shop and look at the Humminbird range of GPS/depth sounders. Late
last year I visited Mullet Gut Marine in Toowoomba. They had a nice
display of the Humminbird products including one with the Altair's
320 x 240 1/4 VGA display. Next to it was the 787C2 with a full
colour full VGA display. As different as night from day. We took the
787C2 outside and even in direct bright sunlight on the display the
colours were vibrant and saturated. No problem with half the display
shaded either. So far the only colour display I've seen I'd consider
in a glider cockpit to replace all the instruments. Pity you can't
buy it. It is a custom job and Humminbird can't get enough of them. I
asked them , but they did tell me how it was done. There are some new
display technologies coming along involving lasers that might give
bright displays without giving the glider battery such a hard time.
Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
Int'l + 61 429 355784
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
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