Sometimes it does work out OK. About 4 years ago Emilis dragged me around the boonies out the back of Waikerie showing me how to stay in the air on a bad day - in his Retro glider. He taught me plenty in the few days allotted. After that I flew in a few comps. A couple months ago I got an opportunity to go and fly in Rieti at the Pre Worlds. That experience was astounding. I asked around the field in Italy, if anyone could put into words the experience of flying over the terrain that we did, in the weather conditions, and in the company of the people we had. No one could. They all agreed the privilege of being in such an event was indescribably good - you simply have to do it. The problem we face as an organization is exposing to the membership how good it really can be in our sport. Articulating the magnificence of the sport is where we tend as a group to let ourselves down. If they need to be impressed by a plastic brain in the cockpit - then they are just not getting it!! If people want to, the opportunities are there. They just need to be motivated. There is more to gliding than sitting the back seat of a trainer with someone trying to kill you all day every Saturday :-) Simon -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashford, John Sent: Monday, 3 September 2007 3:48 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] pause for thought Yes, that comment struck a chord with me also. It does take a lot of effort to be a glider pilot and that is more than most people are prepared to do these days. regards John <http://thewell.santos.com.au/teamlink/directory/moreinfo.asp?strEntID=8 36> Ashford Maintenance Supervisor, Dullingari / Cross Border Santos Ltd PO Box 1010 Bne 4001 Ph 08 8678 4751 Fax 08 8678 4740 Mob 0409 679 867 _____
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Kidd Sent: Monday, 3 September 2007 14:44 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] pause for thought Thanks for that info Mike That was very interesting. But I don't think some Hangie's (perhaps isolated) perception of Sailplane Instruments is the biggest problem that the GFA faces ... however it is perhaps symptomatic. (But surely they will get turned on by Mike's latest stuff). For one, try the fact that we are often perceived as a bunch of old pharts hanging around a "Club", doing "Clubcentric" things, flying seldom and when we do we fly locally in old worn-out and dilapidated machines. For two, try the fact that the above is often reinforced by the passion of many Clubs to use Blaniks or similar to promote the sport to the uninitiated. Now the Blanik is a fine & worthy servant of the movement but they are hardly the equipment that will make potential new members bar-up. For three, try the fact that I was talking to a fellow the other day who proudly told me that he has 750 GFA instructing hours and has never been cross-country. For four, try the fact that the way membership is going, the GFA will soon perhaps have more "departments" and will have undertaken more "restructures" than members. Something surely needs to be done to give the sport some "spark" and anything that makes us pause for thought along those lines is certainly worthwhile, but a switch to Hang Glider like instruments is not that cure. I was however struck by Emilis's final para that said " And I have to admit to a personal ambivalence in participating in a Gen Y/grey nomad focused event where I get to prep/wash/DI the sailplane and get it to the launch point so that the user group can stroll out from airconditioned ease to be chauffered around the sky; only to be judged primarily on being 'retro' (love that word)." Now that IS pause for thought. Regards Geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Borgelt <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Discussion of issues relating to <mailto:[email protected]> Soaring in Australia. Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] pause for thought LOL! Calling modern sailplane instruments retro is funny coming from one who flys an aircraft that would be instantly recognisable by Otto Lilienthal if you brought him back. Old Otto would probably think it was the 1907 model of his hang gliders, not a 2007 model. I guess it helps if you don't know any history. Tim, you are wrong, they would not have won a contest this side of 1930 not 1960. I believe the best rigid wing hang gliders are up around the performance of the Grunau Baby, which when it was first built (around 1932?) was not considered a competition sailplane, just a secondary training glider. I had a bit to do with the hang gliding community in South Australia from 1979 to about 1988. Also designed and built a few different hang glider instruments and repaired a few others. It is quite a different environment for the engineering and you really need to have deep background in the activity to do it properly. I gave up because the hangies ideas on instrumentation were so primitive. I had some more contact with them in 1996 just as the first hang gliders with no top kingposts were appearing. They were looking at GPS logging at the time(after it was adopted in gliding).The new hang gliders were regarded as frightfully expensive in the $8000 to 10,000 range when a kingpost model cost $5000-6000. I was told the new ones would never catch on due to the price. I'm not sure you can still buy the old model. LCD's, graphics displays and integrated GPS, loggers etc first appeared in sailplane instruments, not hang glider instruments. If you think glider instruments are "retro" perhaps you think of your instruments as fashion statements rather than functional items or all you've been exposed to is the average club trainer. I had a look at the Flytek instruments. We could have done an LCD pointer on the B400 and B500. It actually is cheaper and uses less power but we chose the stepper driven white pointer on black background because it gives the best contrast under all light conditions and at 150 steps per knot the instrument resolution isn't limited by the stepper resolution. The basic variometer resolution is about 0.01 knots on a B500 and about 0.04 knots on a B400. I can't tell the difference. An LCD pointer would have meant a best resolution of 0.4 knots and some seem to use about 1 knot steps. I consider this unacceptable. Then we could use the nice coloured LED's for speed command and other functions. Note we use a nice diffuser in front of the LED too. I notice the top of the line Flytek had a pointer on circular dial LCD vario . The reason is that you get the longest scale for a compact size. You also get an angle change which is very easy to discern. Looking at some ultralight instruments the other day it seems about half of the manufacturers simply synthesise what looks like a steam gauge panel on a large LCD. OTOH the HUD in the F/A18 just uses numbers for airspeed and altitude and seems perfectly fine to use. I wouldn't want a vario like that though. What the top of the line Flytek doesn't appear to have is a moving map, certainly not as the primary flight display. Smart folks! If you want to see a real sunlight readable LCD go to your local boat shop and look at the Humminbird range of GPS/depth sounders. Late last year I visited Mullet Gut Marine in Toowoomba. They had a nice display of the Humminbird products including one with the Altair's 320 x 240 1/4 VGA display. Next to it was the 787C2 with a full colour full VGA display. As different as night from day. We took the 787C2 outside and even in direct bright sunlight on the display the colours were vibrant and saturated. No problem with half the display shaded either. So far the only colour display I've seen I'd consider in a glider cockpit to replace all the instruments. Pity you can't buy it. It is a custom job and Humminbird can't get enough of them. I asked them , but they did tell me how it was done. There are some new display technologies coming along involving lasers that might give bright displays without giving the glider battery such a hard time. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Please consider the environment before printing. ________________________________________________________________________ _______________ Santos Ltd A.B.N. 80 007 550 923 Disclaimer: The information contained in this email is intended only for the use of the person(s) to whom it is addressed and may be confidential or contain privileged information. 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