At 09:19 AM 25/09/2007, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>Mike, re climate change, give me a break, we have all heard the reality
>deniers point of view but the bottom line is 99%+ of the worlds climate
>scientists all agree that climate change is occurring.
If you had bothered to read my post that's what I said. The
disagreement is to the cause, because the climate changes all the time.
There's lots of proxy evidence for this and the proxy evidence goes
back to before industrialisation or much fossil fuel burning.
I even said that humans could be responsible due to land use changes.
>The evidence provided by the unprecedented opening of a North West passage
>due to ice melting on a large scale in the arctic is undeniable, along with
>many increase in the melting of ice.
Nope, the NW passage was navigated by ship in 1905 and quite a few times since.
The "unprecedented" ice melting goes back 20 years or so since it
began to be monitored by satellite.
Wonder how much there was in say 900AD. Satellite recon was a little
hard to come by then.
BTW how about the current "close to historical high" in the
ANTARCTIC sea ice? Evidence of global cooling?
Yes there is some melting of ice and snow in the European Alps. Roman
artefacts and tree remnants are being found from when the snowline
was higher in the past.
>That silly "Great global warming swindle" documentary that most deniers rely
>on has been so completely and thoroughly discredited that it's a running
>joke.
Svensmark and others are serious scientists collecting data and doing
experiments. Lindzen is famous for his work on dynamical meteorology.
TGGWS stacks up pretty well against Al Gore's bad science fiction
movie with its proven lies.
Anyway I doubt many sceptics are relying on the movie. I prefer
looking at the data. Unfortunately when you do, you find much of it
has been "adjusted" by various methods and the "adjusters" seem quite
reluctant to disclose their methods. Whatever that is, it isn't
science. Then there is the placement of the sensors in the climate
network. In the US at least it seems "global warming" may well be
human caused - by putting thermometers in car parks, next to aircon
outlets etc. There's currently a volunteer effort to photograph and
log the sites. This is grunt work that should have already been done
officially. Hansen did it by counting lights on night time satellite
photos. Kind of hard to see the air con outlets there. A lot easier
than getting out of the office I guess. There are heaps of other
problems including with the Ice core/CO2 data.
>I have a web site for the flat earth society, where they make lots of ill
>informed and distracting claims too but that doesn't make them right you
>know. For every 1 scientist who denies there are 100 who believe-do the
>maths, and face reality. Try driving around the SA country at the moment if
>you need more evidence.
Evidence of what? That there's a drought? A not infrequent occurrence
in Australia.
>Even our despicable federal government which is almost unparalleled at
>reality denial and outright lying (and/or incompetence) in this area and
>most other areas, believes now.
I really hope not. I suspect they have gone along with the hoax
seeing as so many of the serf's like yourself have been brainwashed in to it.
I really hope they are a cynical pack of bastards and not so stupid
as to believe this.
>Of course you and the fringe loonies could be right and the *real* experts
>all wrong.........
Strange that of the skeptics, meteorologists and geologists feature
prominently among the unbelievers. A friend of mine is a PhD
geologist who lectures at UWA (the "pollen lady" for those who saw
that Australian Story on TV). She told me her first task is to tell
the new geology uni students that "yes climate change is always
occurring and no there's nothing you can do about it" after the
brainwashing they get in high school. She also said we're in an ice
age still because there's ice at both poles AT THE SAME TIME.
I would find the wholesale gullibility on this issue hilarious if it
wasn't so tragic. While we are a rich society and can afford a
reasonable level of foolishness this nonsense has the potential to
cause immense damage.
The "biofuels" scam including ethanol is just one example. A bunch of
environmental organisations just approached the EU to say that the
biofuels mandate might not be a good idea. The environmental
degradation being caused in its name is horrendous.
BTW how come you drive past a closer gliding club and drive all the
way to Waikerie with attendant increased CO2 emissions?
Derek,
You are right, carbon trading is a scam pure and simple. Imagine
having a commodity which is created by fiat, doesn't require a
warehouse to store and is purely imaginary. Fantastic! Better still,
the government holds a gun to your customers' heads to force them to
buy it. Fabulous! And the serfs like Dave line up to pay their hard earned.
Mark,
Defining an essential trace gas as "pollution" is debasing the
language. At much less then 100ppmv CO2 all the plants die followed
by all the animals including us. Most plants grow better with much
higher atmospheric CO2 levels. If you know any evolutionary biology
you might wonder why.
Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
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