At 12:15 AM 4/12/2007, you wrote:

>Merely that consideration of the source is part and parcel
>of the assessment of new information.
>
>The possibility that climate change scientists are a bunch of loons
>pushing political barrows doesn't disqualify the possibility that
>Christopher Monckton is also a loon pushing a political barrow.

Mark,

Let's try this once more.

Did you actually read the paper?

There's a very short summary here by David Evans, who used to be a 
believer and even made his living at it

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/Evans-CO2DoesNotCauseGW.pdf

I really couldn't care less who the authors of certain papers are. 
Many scientists who have made valuable contributions have had weird 
beliefs about all sorts of things.

Just look at the data.

So one more time, what's wrong with the data, Mark?

For those not up on this, there is considerable effort in climate 
science to find a "fingerprint" which can definitely point to the 
extra CO2 caused by human fossil fuel burning as being the cause of 
the rather mild apparent warming to distinguish it from the other 
possible causes which we know exist because of the historical record.

As you might expect, this is difficult. There are computer models 
called Global (or General) Circulation Models which attempt to take 
the physical properties of the air and ocean, the incoming solar 
energy, the outgoing long wave radiation, the effect of rotation of 
the earth and many, many other physical variables in to account. Last 
I heard there were 23 or so major models. That alone should tell you 
something. The models handle condensation and evaporation of water 
rather poorly and aren't really designed as climate prediction tools 
but are designed to hopefully help in separating out the effects of 
changes in individual physical variables and the effects of these on 
other variables.

Monckton didn't do any original research in his paper. He merely took 
the IPCC agreed on computer modelling results, the real world 
measurements of the atmosphere from radiosonde direct temperature 
measurements and the satellite microwave sounding unit(MSU) 
temperature measurements and compared them. He's drawn his 
conclusions from that. The IPCC has apparently come to a different 
conclusion from the same data - the real world doesn't seem to agree 
with our computer models so the real world data must have problems. 
This is a possibility but there are 2 independent means of 
atmospheric temperature measurement being used with many datapoints 
over relatively long time periods and it would seem to require rather 
strange systematic errors to eliminate the computer predicted 
fingerprint. If the radiosonde data has large error bands capable of 
encompassing the computer prediction the Hadley Centre did a very 
poor experimental design at least.  If the measurements had backed 
the computer predictions I bet you would have heard about this long 
and loud and there would be no discussion about measurement error bands.

The again, maybe the computer models are wrong and the effect of 
extra CO2 is much less than the modellers build in to the models and 
just maybe the water vapour and other feedbacks are negative instead 
of strongly positive.

Mike


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