A general re-write project that started in 1993 - and is still underway! The 
flight crew licensing part was made last month and takes effect in December 
(and includes a glider pilot licence).

Wombat

Sent from my iPad

On 01/03/2013, at 11:00 PM, "Christopher McDonnell" <[email protected]> 
wrote:

> And the cause of the rule change?
>  
> From: Mike Cleaver
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:54 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] glider register
>  
> Was nothing to do with 9/11 but a change to aircraft registration rules in 
> about 2006 - in order to validate the existing registrations all owners had I 
> think 2 years to transfer their aircraft registration to the new system, and 
> those who did not were no longer kept on the register. Many gliders and 
> aeroplanes that were not being flown chose not to bother.
>  
> Wombat
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 28/02/2013, at 4:55 PM, "Christopher McDonnell" <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
>> CASA register search and pick glider option. Lots of oldies I know of though 
>> who did not comply with 9/11 fallout panic and have fallen off the register.
>>  
>> From: Ron Sanders
>> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:50 PM
>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] glider register
>>  
>> 
>> can anyonwe tell me how to find the totl australian glider register?
>>  
>> ron
>> On 27 February 2013 20:55, tom claffey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Aircon? - I want one! :)
>>>  
>>> From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]>; 
>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
>>> <[email protected]>; 
>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4 ~ Why not move to 24 volt systems? 
>>> Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 12:44:04 AM 
>>> 
>>> You usually move to higher voltage to transmit greater power at the same or 
>>> lower current which reduces  wiring weight. I suspect in light aircraft the 
>>> power requirement for the electrics is driven by systems other than the 
>>> avionics i.e electrically driven hydraulic pumps or simply electrically 
>>> driven flaps, landing gear retract etc.
>>> There is consideration of going to 42 volts for cars for this reason.
>>> 
>>> B50s work down to 10 volts, B300/B500/600/800 a little less. B400 and B700 
>>> down to 4 volts.(internal boost regulator cuts in). A 12 v nominal SLA 
>>> battery is about to die at 11V terminal voltage when discharged at typical 
>>> glider rates. If you are losing more than 0.2 volts or so between the 
>>> battery and the instrument you need to fix the wiring, fuses switches etc.
>>> 
>>> There doesn't seem to be any overwhelming reason to go to 24 volts in 
>>> gliders. I'll bet most "24 or 28 volt" avionics has a switch mode regulator 
>>> to get 14 volts before going to the rest of the gadget or simply to the 5 
>>> volts or so required by the logic circuits.
>>> 
>>> If we go to electric flaps and aircon like the Duckhawk this may change. I 
>>> think it has something like a 54 A-H battery.
>>> 
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 08:13 AM 28/02/2013, you wrote:
>>>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>>>          boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01CE1593.E2557430"
>>>> Content-Language: en-us
>>>> 
>>>> My contribution to the battery aspect of this thread is to question why we 
>>>> are so infatuated by 12 volts? [I once wrote Standards, and Standards 
>>>> often impede innovation]
>>>>  
>>>> I also agree that the electrical systems must be designed and implemented 
>>>> taking into consideration volts, amps, temperature high and low, wiring, 
>>>> insulation, noxious gases, fusing, short circuit and thermal runaway, G 
>>>> load, weight and many other factors
>>>>  
>>>> At Oshkosh 2006 the Blue Mountains Avionics presentation  said for light 
>>>> aircraft the move to 24 volt systems was a no brainer, just so logical. 
>>>> Most instrumentation and radio’s require 10 volts and a 12 volt system 
>>>> decays to 10 volt reasonably fast. Microair’s need probably 10.5 before 
>>>> the transmitter goes garbled, Cambridge falls over at about 8 volts.  Mike 
>>>> could perhaps comment on the minimums for Borgelt              
>>>> instruments.  PDA’s and XCSoar have a USB 5 volt input so may work longer 
>>>> on a 12 volt system?  Some avionics are designed for 35 volt DC maximum 
>>>> input [but XCOM and Microair apparently have 16 ~ 17 volt maximum input 
>>>> specification] 
>>>>  
>>>> But starting with 24 volts gets much more out of the battery before 
>>>> avionics fail.  Even moving to say 16 volt to keep within radio 
>>>> specification could lead to increased useful battery life.
>>>>  
>>>> Cranking amps for starter motors is at the high drain end of the drain 
>>>> spectrum but arguably is early in a batteries discharge cycle in the 
>>>> glider application.
>>>>  
>>>> So why not have 16 ~ 24 volt systems in gliders?
>>>>  
>>>> Alan Wilson
>>>> [ARMIT Comm Eng]
>>>> Canberra 
>>>>  
>>>> From: [email protected] [ 
>>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 8:58 PM
>>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4
>>>>  
>>>> Nice one Arie. 
>>>> You do bring a bit of costing perspective into the argument here. 
>>>>  
>>>> The YouTube footage is interesting (horrific?), but I suspect basically 
>>>> irrelevant. 
>>>>  
>>>> I think that any glider pilot who knows anything about the problem, does 
>>>> not want to experience an inflight              cockpit fire UNDER ANY 
>>>> CIRCUMSTANCES. I know of one example, where the pilot was VERY happy to 
>>>> have survived the experience - without having to bail out. He reported 
>>>> that fire - as in burning - was NOT the problem. He reported that the 
>>>> amount of fumes and smoke generated in an incredibly short time from the 
>>>> ignition of the plastic wire covering due to shorting of the electrical 
>>>> system was in fact the primary problem. For this unfortunate pilot, there 
>>>> were really  two problems: first he had to be able to breathe, and 
>>>> secondly he had to be able to see what you are doing - basically 
>>>> impossible in a cockpit filled with smoke!
>>>>  
>>>> Re your statement "willing to replace a couple of batteries each year 
>>>> ...." Probably a slip of the pen: As Bernard has pointed out a high 
>>>> quality SLA gel cell type battery MAY last up to 9 or 10 years, but this 
>>>> is hardly likely to be the norm. Five - seven years seems to be much more 
>>>> realistic estimate. As far as I can tell, the life of the LiFePo4 
>>>> batteries is not claimed to be any better than this latter figure.
>>>>  
>>>> At this point in time, LiFePo4 batteries are MUCH more expensive. However 
>>>> I expect that in a few years time the price will have fallen, and many 
>>>> glider pilots will be using these "new fangled" devices,.
>>>>  
>>>> I suspect that I will need to replace my current glider batteries in the 
>>>> near future. I do not have a max AUW of the non-loading bearing parts 
>>>> problem - one valid argument for lighter batteries - and my power 
>>>> consumption figures - high power consumption requirements are another 
>>>> valid argument for using LoFePo4 - are relatively modest, so I have no 
>>>> intention of using LifePo4 batteries for the replacement. 
>>>>  
>>>> What this whole discussion has crystallised for me is the requirement, 
>>>> regardless of the type of battery selected, is to always use a high 
>>>> quality battery manufactured by a reputable factory who stands behind 
>>>> their product. [I have in the past tried "cheap" batteries, and regretted 
>>>> it.]
>>>>  
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Gary
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: Arie van Spronssen 
>>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:56 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> When people start talking of glider batteries I laugh at their logic. We 
>>>> have a toy that cost anywhere between 2 - 10k and upwards to keep in the 
>>>> air each year (not including getting to and from the airfield and actually 
>>>> getting it in the air) and they are not willing to replace a couple of 
>>>> batteries each year for well under a $100.
>>>> 
>>>> These fancy batteries may be ok but in the vast majority of gliders the 
>>>> simple still works best and is cheap and safe.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes I do play with these fancy batteries in my radio control toys but with 
>>>> great care and they are always stored in a lipo safe bag. You only have to 
>>>> watch this video to agree http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw8jb1KmAG8 yes I 
>>>> know the newer ones are better but these are only small and look at how 
>>>> they go up and even the newer ones can still have problems.
>>>> 
>>>> regards,
>>>> Arie
>>>> 
>>>> On 27/02/2013 12:52 PM, Future Aviation wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello all
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> It just occurred to me that I have omitted to thank John
>>>> Parncutt
>>>> 
>>>> for his research and his willingness to share the findings with
>>>> us.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Of course, in this context Mike Borgelt's professional advice
>>>> must 
>>>> 
>>>> also be mentioned. Both contributions are extremely useful to
>>>> many 
>>>> 
>>>> of my gliding friends including myself. Many thanks to both of
>>>> you!
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Believe it or not, the last set of SLA batteries powering the
>>>> engine 
>>>> 
>>>> circuit in my ASH 25 lasted for 10 years. At the time I opted
>>>> for the 
>>>> 
>>>> most expensive SLA batteries I could get my hands on and now it
>>>> appears 
>>>> 
>>>> that the old saying holds indeed true. You only get what you
>>>> ........
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Kind regards to
>>>> all.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Bernard Eckey
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original
>>>> Message-----
>>>> 
>>>> From:
>>>> 
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> 
>>>> [
>>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> Borgelt
>>>> 
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 27 February 2013 11:22
>>>> AM
>>>> 
>>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in
>>>> Australia.
>>>> 
>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring]
>>>> LiFePo4
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> As I said yesterday, do proper engineering on your battery
>>>> installation.
>>>> 
>>>> If you don't have real numbers for temperature limits, discharge
>>>> curves at
>>>> 
>>>> various rates, charging characteristics etc etc you aren't
>>>> doing
>>>> 
>>>> engineering, you're just
>>>> guessing.
>>>> 
>>>> A battery designed to start a racing motorbike and then be
>>>> recharged by the
>>>> 
>>>> alternator and floated at that voltage likely has quite
>>>> different
>>>> 
>>>> characteristics, design and longevity from one designed for
>>>> charging and
>>>> 
>>>> deep discharging over several hours then recharging. You can
>>>> also just stop
>>>> 
>>>> and get off the bike when the battery catches
>>>> fire.
>>>> 
>>>> Li batteries all need individual cell monitoring during charge
>>>> and use or at
>>>> 
>>>> least when charging after mostly
>>>> charged.
>>>> 
>>>> The problem with Ni MH batteries is the number of cells (10 for
>>>> a nominal 12
>>>> 
>>>> V system). You will have at least one weaker cell which will
>>>> deep discharge
>>>> 
>>>> more than the others and will be undercharged or more likely the
>>>> other cells
>>>> 
>>>> will overcharge resulting in reduced battery life. Individual
>>>> cell
>>>> 
>>>> monitoring would help but with 10 cells vs 4 for Li it is a
>>>> pain.
>>>> 
>>>> 3 years isn't bad for a NiMH battery
>>>> pack.
>>>> 
>>>> Some people have a problem with max weight of non lifting parts
>>>> and a few
>>>> 
>>>> kilos saved may make the difference between flying in or
>>>> outside  the
>>>> weight
>>>> 
>>>> and balance envelope. For these LiFEPO4 may be worthwhile but
>>>> use the
>>>> 
>>>> correct
>>>> cells.
>>>> 
>>>> The cylindrical Tenergy cells sold by these people have
>>>> engineering data and
>>>> 
>>>> are Underwriter Labs tested. The tests are published there too.
>>>> Start
>>>> 
>>>> here:
>>>> http://www.all-battery.com/lifepo4battery.aspx
>>>> 
>>>> I've dealt with them and they did what they said they
>>>> would.
>>>> 
>>>> Also these people may be of interest: The batteries seem to be
>>>> the same as
>>>> 
>>>> the Tenergy cells but with a different colour outer sleeve.
>>>> 
>>>> They have battery monitoring/cutoff circuitry available also.
>>>> You must use a
>>>> 
>>>> low voltage cutoff at
>>>> least.
>>>> 
>>>> http://lithbattoz.com.au
>>>> 
>>>> The old sealed lead acid batteries are OK. They are heavier
>>>> although in many
>>>> 
>>>> installations that may not matter. The capacity is usually
>>>> quoted at the 20
>>>> 
>>>> hour rate. In modern gliders 1 amp continuous is not an unusual
>>>> load so
>>>> 
>>>> that's the 7 hour rate. Likely it is a 5 A-H battery at this
>>>> rate. Give it a
>>>> 
>>>> couple of dozen charge cycles and it is a 3 or 4 A-H battery and
>>>> you begin
>>>> 
>>>> to have problems. Note also the number of cycles you get is non
>>>> linear with
>>>> 
>>>> depth of discharge. Small % discharge you'll get lots of cycles.
>>>> Large %
>>>> 
>>>> discharge many, many fewer
>>>> cycles.
>>>> 
>>>> Size the battery to handle the longest flights and then use two
>>>> batteries.
>>>> 
>>>> Use one routinely, keep the other charged then when the first
>>>> battery dies
>>>> 
>>>> due to low capacity you have a known good battery.
>>>> 
>>>> Put that one in  the first position then put a new one in
>>>> the standby
>>>> 
>>>> position. You should always have a good battery available
>>>> then.
>>>> 
>>>> If using some new type either learn enough to do an engineering
>>>> analysis or
>>>> 
>>>> find someone willing to do one for you. Otherwise these things
>>>> may get
>>>> 
>>>> needlessly banned or we have fires in gliders. It would be
>>>> embarrassing to
>>>> 
>>>> explain to your insurance compny why you had to bail out of your
>>>> burning
>>>> 
>>>> glider.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
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