A general re-write project that started in 1993 - and is still underway! The flight crew licensing part was made last month and takes effect in December (and includes a glider pilot licence).
Wombat Sent from my iPad On 01/03/2013, at 11:00 PM, "Christopher McDonnell" <[email protected]> wrote: > And the cause of the rule change? > > From: Mike Cleaver > Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:54 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] glider register > > Was nothing to do with 9/11 but a change to aircraft registration rules in > about 2006 - in order to validate the existing registrations all owners had I > think 2 years to transfer their aircraft registration to the new system, and > those who did not were no longer kept on the register. Many gliders and > aeroplanes that were not being flown chose not to bother. > > Wombat > > > Sent from my iPad > > On 28/02/2013, at 4:55 PM, "Christopher McDonnell" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> CASA register search and pick glider option. Lots of oldies I know of though >> who did not comply with 9/11 fallout panic and have fallen off the register. >> >> From: Ron Sanders >> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:50 PM >> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >> Subject: [Aus-soaring] glider register >> >> >> can anyonwe tell me how to find the totl australian glider register? >> >> ron >> On 27 February 2013 20:55, tom claffey <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Aircon? - I want one! :) >>> >>> From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]>; >>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>> <[email protected]>; >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4 ~ Why not move to 24 volt systems? >>> Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 12:44:04 AM >>> >>> You usually move to higher voltage to transmit greater power at the same or >>> lower current which reduces wiring weight. I suspect in light aircraft the >>> power requirement for the electrics is driven by systems other than the >>> avionics i.e electrically driven hydraulic pumps or simply electrically >>> driven flaps, landing gear retract etc. >>> There is consideration of going to 42 volts for cars for this reason. >>> >>> B50s work down to 10 volts, B300/B500/600/800 a little less. B400 and B700 >>> down to 4 volts.(internal boost regulator cuts in). A 12 v nominal SLA >>> battery is about to die at 11V terminal voltage when discharged at typical >>> glider rates. If you are losing more than 0.2 volts or so between the >>> battery and the instrument you need to fix the wiring, fuses switches etc. >>> >>> There doesn't seem to be any overwhelming reason to go to 24 volts in >>> gliders. I'll bet most "24 or 28 volt" avionics has a switch mode regulator >>> to get 14 volts before going to the rest of the gadget or simply to the 5 >>> volts or so required by the logic circuits. >>> >>> If we go to electric flaps and aircon like the Duckhawk this may change. I >>> think it has something like a 54 A-H battery. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> At 08:13 AM 28/02/2013, you wrote: >>>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >>>> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_01CE1593.E2557430" >>>> Content-Language: en-us >>>> >>>> My contribution to the battery aspect of this thread is to question why we >>>> are so infatuated by 12 volts? [I once wrote Standards, and Standards >>>> often impede innovation] >>>> >>>> I also agree that the electrical systems must be designed and implemented >>>> taking into consideration volts, amps, temperature high and low, wiring, >>>> insulation, noxious gases, fusing, short circuit and thermal runaway, G >>>> load, weight and many other factors >>>> >>>> At Oshkosh 2006 the Blue Mountains Avionics presentation said for light >>>> aircraft the move to 24 volt systems was a no brainer, just so logical. >>>> Most instrumentation and radio’s require 10 volts and a 12 volt system >>>> decays to 10 volt reasonably fast. Microair’s need probably 10.5 before >>>> the transmitter goes garbled, Cambridge falls over at about 8 volts. Mike >>>> could perhaps comment on the minimums for Borgelt >>>> instruments. PDA’s and XCSoar have a USB 5 volt input so may work longer >>>> on a 12 volt system? Some avionics are designed for 35 volt DC maximum >>>> input [but XCOM and Microair apparently have 16 ~ 17 volt maximum input >>>> specification] >>>> >>>> But starting with 24 volts gets much more out of the battery before >>>> avionics fail. Even moving to say 16 volt to keep within radio >>>> specification could lead to increased useful battery life. >>>> >>>> Cranking amps for starter motors is at the high drain end of the drain >>>> spectrum but arguably is early in a batteries discharge cycle in the >>>> glider application. >>>> >>>> So why not have 16 ~ 24 volt systems in gliders? >>>> >>>> Alan Wilson >>>> [ARMIT Comm Eng] >>>> Canberra >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] [ >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> [email protected] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 27 February, 2013 8:58 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4 >>>> >>>> Nice one Arie. >>>> You do bring a bit of costing perspective into the argument here. >>>> >>>> The YouTube footage is interesting (horrific?), but I suspect basically >>>> irrelevant. >>>> >>>> I think that any glider pilot who knows anything about the problem, does >>>> not want to experience an inflight cockpit fire UNDER ANY >>>> CIRCUMSTANCES. I know of one example, where the pilot was VERY happy to >>>> have survived the experience - without having to bail out. He reported >>>> that fire - as in burning - was NOT the problem. He reported that the >>>> amount of fumes and smoke generated in an incredibly short time from the >>>> ignition of the plastic wire covering due to shorting of the electrical >>>> system was in fact the primary problem. For this unfortunate pilot, there >>>> were really two problems: first he had to be able to breathe, and >>>> secondly he had to be able to see what you are doing - basically >>>> impossible in a cockpit filled with smoke! >>>> >>>> Re your statement "willing to replace a couple of batteries each year >>>> ...." Probably a slip of the pen: As Bernard has pointed out a high >>>> quality SLA gel cell type battery MAY last up to 9 or 10 years, but this >>>> is hardly likely to be the norm. Five - seven years seems to be much more >>>> realistic estimate. As far as I can tell, the life of the LiFePo4 >>>> batteries is not claimed to be any better than this latter figure. >>>> >>>> At this point in time, LiFePo4 batteries are MUCH more expensive. However >>>> I expect that in a few years time the price will have fallen, and many >>>> glider pilots will be using these "new fangled" devices,. >>>> >>>> I suspect that I will need to replace my current glider batteries in the >>>> near future. I do not have a max AUW of the non-loading bearing parts >>>> problem - one valid argument for lighter batteries - and my power >>>> consumption figures - high power consumption requirements are another >>>> valid argument for using LoFePo4 - are relatively modest, so I have no >>>> intention of using LifePo4 batteries for the replacement. >>>> >>>> What this whole discussion has crystallised for me is the requirement, >>>> regardless of the type of battery selected, is to always use a high >>>> quality battery manufactured by a reputable factory who stands behind >>>> their product. [I have in the past tried "cheap" batteries, and regretted >>>> it.] >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Gary >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Arie van Spronssen >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 6:56 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] LiFePo4 >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> When people start talking of glider batteries I laugh at their logic. We >>>> have a toy that cost anywhere between 2 - 10k and upwards to keep in the >>>> air each year (not including getting to and from the airfield and actually >>>> getting it in the air) and they are not willing to replace a couple of >>>> batteries each year for well under a $100. >>>> >>>> These fancy batteries may be ok but in the vast majority of gliders the >>>> simple still works best and is cheap and safe. >>>> >>>> Yes I do play with these fancy batteries in my radio control toys but with >>>> great care and they are always stored in a lipo safe bag. You only have to >>>> watch this video to agree http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw8jb1KmAG8 yes I >>>> know the newer ones are better but these are only small and look at how >>>> they go up and even the newer ones can still have problems. >>>> >>>> regards, >>>> Arie >>>> >>>> On 27/02/2013 12:52 PM, Future Aviation wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello all >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It just occurred to me that I have omitted to thank John >>>> Parncutt >>>> >>>> for his research and his willingness to share the findings with >>>> us. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Of course, in this context Mike Borgelt's professional advice >>>> must >>>> >>>> also be mentioned. Both contributions are extremely useful to >>>> many >>>> >>>> of my gliding friends including myself. Many thanks to both of >>>> you! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Believe it or not, the last set of SLA batteries powering the >>>> engine >>>> >>>> circuit in my ASH 25 lasted for 10 years. At the time I opted >>>> for the >>>> >>>> most expensive SLA batteries I could get my hands on and now it >>>> appears >>>> >>>> that the old saying holds indeed true. You only get what you >>>> ........ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Kind regards to >>>> all. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bernard Eckey >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original >>>> Message----- >>>> >>>> From: >>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> [ >>>> mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> Borgelt >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 27 February 2013 11:22 >>>> AM >>>> >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in >>>> Australia. >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] >>>> LiFePo4 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As I said yesterday, do proper engineering on your battery >>>> installation. >>>> >>>> If you don't have real numbers for temperature limits, discharge >>>> curves at >>>> >>>> various rates, charging characteristics etc etc you aren't >>>> doing >>>> >>>> engineering, you're just >>>> guessing. >>>> >>>> A battery designed to start a racing motorbike and then be >>>> recharged by the >>>> >>>> alternator and floated at that voltage likely has quite >>>> different >>>> >>>> characteristics, design and longevity from one designed for >>>> charging and >>>> >>>> deep discharging over several hours then recharging. You can >>>> also just stop >>>> >>>> and get off the bike when the battery catches >>>> fire. >>>> >>>> Li batteries all need individual cell monitoring during charge >>>> and use or at >>>> >>>> least when charging after mostly >>>> charged. >>>> >>>> The problem with Ni MH batteries is the number of cells (10 for >>>> a nominal 12 >>>> >>>> V system). You will have at least one weaker cell which will >>>> deep discharge >>>> >>>> more than the others and will be undercharged or more likely the >>>> other cells >>>> >>>> will overcharge resulting in reduced battery life. Individual >>>> cell >>>> >>>> monitoring would help but with 10 cells vs 4 for Li it is a >>>> pain. >>>> >>>> 3 years isn't bad for a NiMH battery >>>> pack. >>>> >>>> Some people have a problem with max weight of non lifting parts >>>> and a few >>>> >>>> kilos saved may make the difference between flying in or >>>> outside the >>>> weight >>>> >>>> and balance envelope. For these LiFEPO4 may be worthwhile but >>>> use the >>>> >>>> correct >>>> cells. >>>> >>>> The cylindrical Tenergy cells sold by these people have >>>> engineering data and >>>> >>>> are Underwriter Labs tested. The tests are published there too. >>>> Start >>>> >>>> here: >>>> http://www.all-battery.com/lifepo4battery.aspx >>>> >>>> I've dealt with them and they did what they said they >>>> would. >>>> >>>> Also these people may be of interest: The batteries seem to be >>>> the same as >>>> >>>> the Tenergy cells but with a different colour outer sleeve. >>>> >>>> They have battery monitoring/cutoff circuitry available also. >>>> You must use a >>>> >>>> low voltage cutoff at >>>> least. >>>> >>>> http://lithbattoz.com.au >>>> >>>> The old sealed lead acid batteries are OK. They are heavier >>>> although in many >>>> >>>> installations that may not matter. The capacity is usually >>>> quoted at the 20 >>>> >>>> hour rate. In modern gliders 1 amp continuous is not an unusual >>>> load so >>>> >>>> that's the 7 hour rate. Likely it is a 5 A-H battery at this >>>> rate. Give it a >>>> >>>> couple of dozen charge cycles and it is a 3 or 4 A-H battery and >>>> you begin >>>> >>>> to have problems. Note also the number of cycles you get is non >>>> linear with >>>> >>>> depth of discharge. Small % discharge you'll get lots of cycles. >>>> Large % >>>> >>>> discharge many, many fewer >>>> cycles. >>>> >>>> Size the battery to handle the longest flights and then use two >>>> batteries. >>>> >>>> Use one routinely, keep the other charged then when the first >>>> battery dies >>>> >>>> due to low capacity you have a known good battery. >>>> >>>> Put that one in the first position then put a new one in >>>> the standby >>>> >>>> position. You should always have a good battery available >>>> then. >>>> >>>> If using some new type either learn enough to do an engineering >>>> analysis or >>>> >>>> find someone willing to do one for you. Otherwise these things >>>> may get >>>> >>>> needlessly banned or we have fires in gliders. It would be >>>> embarrassing to >>>> >>>> explain to your insurance compny why you had to bail out of your >>>> burning >>>> >>>> glider. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>> list >>>> >>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> To check or change subscription details, >>>> visit: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>> list >>>> >>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> To check or change subscription details, >>>> visit: >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2641/5635 - Release Date: 02/26/13 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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