Hi Simon, I have to admit that you had me with your logic until you
essentially accused me of lacking moral fibre for not apologising for my
post displaying healthy bodies, Normally I wouldn't even dignify you with a
with a response however you have now used a public forum to essentially
dismiss me and comment on my moral fibre based on your own learned
experience. I feel I need to respond.
To be honest I don't really care if those of you offended print this out and
use it to wipe your backsides with it, it would be hoping too much for you
to actually save the paper and donate it to a third world school run by a
non-corrupt agency.
The original poster is a mate of mine and what's more he is a nice bloke and
an awesome benefit to gliding. Yes to some the original post and apparently
mine was inappropriate, my post was merely an attempt to turn the subject
around to the more mainstream balanced media way of looking at it.
Christ you would have thought the world has ended.
HOWEVER, those who live in glass houses as they say.
So on my short time on this list I have read posts (and before the pious say
it wasn't you, perhaps you might need to read your own posts) insinuating
Disrespect to people and cubs
Disrespect to the recently deceased
Disrespect to manufacturers, employment type and safety
Approval of Flying airworthy aircraft
Approval of Flying under the influence of drugs and alcohol
Terrorism and ASIC use
Apportioning blame
Making aggressive anti GFA statements
Approval of Flying against CASA and GFA Sop's
Flying uninsured
Not making radio calls
Not paying entry fees
Falsifying log books.
There are many many other examples on this list yet we save our passionate
responses for a photo of someone's entirely normal body and some other
bodies that their owners have taken care of and are proud to show off.
Meanwhile every newspaper in the country is selling sex and preying on
women, the TV presenters look like goddesses, the ads promote fashion, Botox
and plastic surgery. Our own politicians are happy to spend millions for a
Malaysian 777 hidden somewhere on the planet yet every night “first nations
people “die of alcohol and health related illness, our gay community are
ignored and unemployed single mothers earn more than a working single
mother.
Meanwhile there are millions of women around the world not allowed
education, raped on a daily basis, forced into arranged marriages, having
their vaginas mutilated and stoned to death all in the name of some magical
god who lives in the sky. We have wars because your mythical magical friend
is better than my mythical magical friend in the sky? GO FIGURE.
Meanwhile in Australia the youth today are sexting tinder, grindr and
blendr, meeting one another in parks after sharing photos of each other's
vaginas and penis's Yes that's right what dirty dirty words. The internet
and media are forcing young people to have surgical procedures to make them
look like a stereotype, NO THEY DONT REALISE THOSE IMAGES HAVE BEEN
PHOTOSHOPPED. Look at all the makeup, Botox and fashion rubbish that is
forced down young peoples throats. I am guessing it would be immature of me
to point out that people who work in the IT or IS arena do pretty well
financially by offering the bandwidth to the end user.
Australia is absolutely a sexist, prejudiced state, but you know what, we
are a damn site better than many other societies. Women in this country have
the vote, they have the ability to live in safety and rise to the top in
every endeavour, yep it’s not perfect and there is more to be done but it’s
a damn sight better than having your clitoris hacked off with a piece of
glass.
The one thing that is going to ruin this country is the small minded
claptrap that is sprouted by the do-gooders. Instead of complaining about
stupid emails where a nice bloke posted a photo totally meant in jest have a
think about how your own back yard is and what your own behaviour has been
like for the last few years.
How much time have you invested in teaching young women ?
How much time have you donated to the homeless ?
How much time have you spent helping the sick, I am not talking about
donating money I am talking about reading to the aged, empting chamber pots
and handing out soup on a cold winters night?
Did you write to the news agency complaining about the little boy holding up
the freshly beheaded head ?
Did you volunteer to the armed forces or make money out of them ?
How much time do you spend masturbating over porn when exploitation is
clear?
How many times have you volunteered at the gliding club to instruct, do
maintenance work or treasury work.
How many young girls have you taken under your wing and helped pursue a
career in aviation.
Simon I thank you stumping up the cash to make this list work but I would
rather you not apologise for my behaviour EVER. Feel free to ban me or
unsubscribe me.
You all have my email and or phone number, feel free to contact me off list
if need be.
For those of you who were truly offended by my post of normal healthy bodies
feel free to hate or pray for me, I won’t be apologising. If there is a god
he has more to worry about than me right now.
Justin
-----Original Message-----
From: Simon Hackett
Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 7:00 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] The definition of unacceptable content on this list
Gentlepersons,
The body images posted today on the list in an apparent (but in my view,
misguided) attempt at humour were totally unacceptable, in my personal view.
Yes, the Internet *is* full of this s**t, but no, this list is *not* a place
to post it. Ever. This list is called 'aus-soaring', not 'misogynist humour'
One of the disadvantages of mailing lists (like this one) is that because
they are email, things posted cannot be 'un-posted'. It is one instance
where more 'modern' mechanisms like web forums allow for retrospective
removal of offensive crap - but alas that is not a technical option here.
Email can't really be un-sent.
What I do have as an option available to me, however, is to change the rules
(or to be more specific, to define them - as this list has gotten along very
very well for many years without any)
I much prefer not having to have rules of conduct, on the general basis that
civilised people should be able to act in in a civilised manner without
them.
A distinct disadvantage of setting up participation rules is that (some)
people will then decide to figure out ways to stress-test, skirt, ignore, or
otherwise circumvent them.
However, I can't let today just pass without doing -something-; and as I'm
the one who paid for this list to exist, there is at least some moral
imperative (and, I would argue, moral right) for me to decide to modify the
environment if it has to be modified.
So here goes:
** There will be, forthwith, zero tolerance of people who send material via
the list that causes offence to reasonable people. Such people will be
removed from the list permanently without further discussion or debate **
That isn't merely limited to rude images. Calling names *can* also hurt
people. Don't do that either. Don't offend. Just... don't.
To be blunt:
If you want to be a boorish asshole, do it somewhere else.
The definition of 'offence to reasonable people' is entirely up to the
personal discretion of those who volunteer their personal time to be list
'owners' ('owners' here is meant in the technical sense of receiving
administrative messages and having to perform administrative functions
related to the list, to make it function).
Note: No warnings, no second chances, and no arguments about the definition
of what the list owners decide to be something that 'causes offence to
reasonable people'.
If you want to have an argument about a decision taken by a volunteer list
owner on this basis, on this list, don't do it here.
Instead, please, start your own list and have that debate there (likely with
yourself and nobody else, if today's exercise is any guide).
To those offended by the posts today (as I was) - I apologise on behalf of
those apparently too cowardly to do so themselves, for the offence that
those people clearly caused to others.
I will note that the definition of being offended is ultimately up to the
person who *is* offended, not to the instigator of the offence, to decide
The role of the instigator in this circumstance is not to say 'toughen up'
(or to say nothing), but rather it is for them to learn from what happened,
to apologise, and then to modify their future behaviour to become more
urbane about their interactions in shared interaction environments... or
else to just leave, if they are incapable of, or disinterested in, being
that caring about the welfare and mental state of others around them.
It is, sadly, not possible to stamp out boorish behaviour in societies. Some
people are just built that way. I get that. Really, I do. I've been a
participant in social media for decades - for far longer than the term has
existed.
I have been the direct target of some pretty rugged personal attacks over
that time. In some circumstances I have had to recuse myself from some
discussion spaces for the preservation of my own calm as a result.
But I do not want aus-soaring to be a place where anyone has to feel the way
that I have been made to feel in the past, in that regard, as the subject of
either personal attacks or as the unwilling recipients of offensive material
via this list.
Hence the new list participation rule, as noted above.
Thanks for listening - and I hope that this (somehow) helps more than it
hinders.
Regards,
Simon Hackett
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