Can I assume at this point in time that there are no manufacturers putting gliding "use case specific collision algorithms" like we have in Flarm into these GA centric options?
> On 21 May 2015, at 3:18 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Google and TABS (Nigel Andrews) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 15:13:04 +1000 > From: "Nigel Andrews" <[email protected]> > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Google and TABS > To: <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > > <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAKHkN31zghRKpfIymq++SLjCgAAAEAAAAJBsAifVviFJnVKi1d4SAUoBAAAAAA==@andrewselectronic.com.au> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Richard, google are not designing their own system - they are following the > TSO C199 which is put out by the FAA. > > Please read this and you will understand what aviation manufacturers have to > endure - painful but it ensures we are all on the same playing field when it > comes to compatibility. > > As per my previous posts, TABS was put out because of a need to have low > cost CAS systems. > > Cheers > > Nigel > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, 21 May 2015 2:56 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 26 > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 24 (Richard Frawley) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:55:53 +1000 > From: Richard Frawley <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 24 > To: "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I am interested to see if Google make it open such that Flarm like > "collisions" algorithms can be implemented, of course full > compatibility/interoperability and operational integrity has to be > guaranteed/underwritten to ensure safety. > > Do you put your life in the hands of nebulous code hackers or a company that > has value that you or others might be able to claim on which in turn drives > them to provide defensible products? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> On 21 May 2015, at 2:39 pm, [email protected] >> wrote: >> >> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 23 (Nigel Andrews) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:38:51 +1000 >> From: "Nigel Andrews" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 23 >> To: <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: > <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAKHkN31zghRKpfIymq++SLjCgAAAEAAAAMG+araISKRGmCY3TRBm > [email protected]> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Casey, >> >> It's not Flarm at fault for breaching privacy, is flarmnet - these guys > need >> to be shut down if there is an issue with privacy. >> >> The statement that encryption was a result of privacy concerns is the bit >> that doesn't gel. >> >> And yes Flarm did make a statement way back before they made lots of money >> that the RF protocol would be made freely available. >> >> But in this world of every increasing numbers of aviation users including >> now the likes of UAV's that we all talk the same talk when it comes to CAS >> and follow standards that are created to protect the end user (in theory) >> and allow many manufacturers to offer a device - not just one. >> >> Google intend making thousands of low cost, TABS devices which talk to GA, >> commercial aircraft, UAV's, ultralights, gliders, balloons - anyone who > has >> a mode S, or Mode S with ADS-B out, or ADS-B out or TABS! >> >> Nigel >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> [email protected] >> Sent: Thursday, 21 May 2015 2:19 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 23 >> >> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than >> "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 22 (Casey Jay Lewis) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:18:45 +0800 >> From: Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 22 >> To: "[email protected]" >> <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Gents, are you forgetting flarmnet.org that links the device to an >> individual? Full name, home club, etc >> >> iPhone Transmission >> >>>> On 21 May, 2015, at 12:14, [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 21 (Nigel Andrews) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 14:14:23 +1000 >>> From: "Nigel Andrews" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 21 >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAKHkN31zghRKpfIymq++SLjCgAAAEAAAAAO5V/cTJT1Jqg >>> 9X7v62A/[email protected]> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> Yep, thanks Al I think you covered it - privacy laws usually are aimed >>> at those who rebroadcast information without the owner's permission, >>> not the manufacturer who made the phone or two way radio that was >>> intercepted! There are thousands of ADS-B aircraft out there >>> broadcasting their make, callsign, position, speed, altitude - why >>> isn't king or garmin getting sued over privacy laws. >>> >>> Nigel >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> [email protected] >>> Sent: Thursday, 21 May 2015 2:07 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 21 >>> >>> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> [email protected] >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> [email protected] >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than >>> "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." >>> >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 (Al Borowski) >>> 2. flarmin' hell (Casey Jay Lewis) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 13:26:54 +1000 >>> From: Al Borowski <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 >>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>> <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: >>> >>> <cacsx6xcfn79fab2ugawcgox+gv8agdwtudeaofsqzfe4cuw...@mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>> >>>> On 21/05/2015, Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> It's unfortunate that OzFLARM et al is no longer supported but >>>> they've clearly taken the decision to allow gradual obsolescence to >>>> force upgrades to the latest standard, with all the associated >>>> benefits that entails. Make no mistake, all the legacy equipment >>>> will keep working just as it always has. >>> >>> Unless I'm missing something obvious - if the protocol changes, but >>> some devices cannot be upgraded, those devices will become blind to >>> other gliders. Is this incorrect? >>> >>> If you have a fleet of gliders and half suddenly become invisible due >>> to time-bombed firmware, safety is lost. >>> >>>> Other >>>> entities were decrypting Flarm data to display personal information >>>> in contravention of EU privacy legislation. I couldn't give two hoots >>>> if someone tracks my gliders position on OGN, FlightAware, >>>> FlightRadar24 etc but others may and can try suing the bejesus out of >>>> PowerFLARM for letting it happen. A detailed article in Gliding >>>> International covered >>> this. >>> >>> I'm not a subscriber but I'd love to read that article. Is it illegal >>> for me to "track" a glider's position by listening to radio calls via >>> an internet stream? If so, surely the fault lies with me, not the >>> manufacturer of the radio gear. If someone uses a crowbar to break >>> into my house, I can't sue the manufacturer of the crowbar... >>> >>>> If I recall correctly, Flarm have undertaken to share their collision >>>> avoidance technology with other manufacturers in the interests of >>>> safety, once the privacy issue is addressed. >>> >>> Frankly, I'm not sure the problem is sharing the "collision avoidance >>> technology" as if it is a clever secret no-one has figured out. I'd be >>> surprised if multiple people on this list couldn't come up with a >>> FLARM alternative, including designing the PCBs, programming the >>> firmware & making a reliable radio link. The problem is getting enough >>> people to agree on a standard so all gliders can see each other. >>> >>> The motivation behind changing the protocol appears to be to >>> deliberate obfuscate the signal that says "Hi Everyone, I am a glider >>> at position X" to prevent third parties building compatible systems. >>> Imagine if aircraft radios worked like this - Microair owners could >>> only talk to other Microair owners etc. >>> >>> I could have sworn I remember Flarm saying the protocol would be an >>> "Open Protocol in the interests of Safety" back when it was being >> introduced. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Al >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:06:30 +0800 >>> From: Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>> To: "[email protected]" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> I certainly share your desire to see those traffic types with greater >>> resolution! >>> >>> Unfortunately, TABS is not designed to do that. It's a way of making 'us' >>> visible to 'them'. As we pretty much all carry one or more accurate >>> but not certified GPS sources already, it's purpose (FAA TSO-C199) is >>> to make gliders and other exempted aircraft such as balloons visible, >>> making use of these non-TSO'd GPS's for collision avoidance purposes. >>> It's basically a cost effective way to turn us into non-certified ADS-B >> out aircraft. >>> >>> ATC still won't use the ADS-B data due to signal integrity & fault >>> monitoring reasons but it permits our current GPS sources (PowerFLARM, >>> LX, CN etc) to be used for collision avoidance. >>> >>> In my case, I have an ADS-B Out capable, Mode S XPDR but no legal >>> position information to feed it. If TABS is adopted, it would let me >>> output my PF/LX GPS position to my XPDR, making me visible to systems >>> such as TCAS in powered aircraft. But....it still doesn't add any >>> visibility of powered aircraft to us. If they aren't ADS-B Out >>> equipped, the best we can get is a range ring on PowerFLARM. Of >>> course, this assumes you haven't spent 10's of thousands on TCAS for >>> your sailplane. Who would?!? I guess we can only hope that AsA/CASA >>> return to mandated ADS-B out for all powered aircraft, as the USA has > done >> with a 2020 deadline. >>> >>> Case >>> >>> iPad transmission >>> >>>>> On 21 May 2015, at 11:19, [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." >>>> >>>> >>>> Today's Topics: >>>> >>>> 1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 (Casey Jay Lewis) 2. >>>> Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 (Erich Wittstock) >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:51:09 +0800 >>>> From: Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 >>>> To: "[email protected]" >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>>> >>>> Take that shotgun off your hip Erich, before you have someone's eye >>>> out! :P >>>> >>>> It seems you're confusing ADS-B Out with PowerFLARM and its >>> capabilities/requirements. >>>> >>>> You've also claimed 'range ring' only for ADS-B equipped traffic and >>> that's just not true. >>>> >>>> With a PowerFLARM, you will see relative distance and altitude >>>> information >>> for: >>>> - PowerFLARM traffic >>>> - OzFLARM traffic >>>> - ADS-B equipped traffic >>>> You don't need any other equipment / 'smoke generators' >>>> >>>> You will see reduced information for transponder only traffic, down >>>> to a >>> mere 'range ring' for Mode A/C transponders. >>>> >>>> It's unfortunate that OzFLARM et al is no longer supported but >>>> they've >>> clearly taken the decision to allow gradual obsolescence to force >>> upgrades to the latest standard, with all the associated benefits that >>> entails. Make no mistake, all the legacy equipment will keep working >>> just as it always has. >>>> >>>> PowerFLARM USA/AUS are compatible. PowerFLARM EUR is not. Not only >>>> are the >>> frequencies different (EUR freq prohibited in the USA) but the FCC >>> also mandate the connector type (reverse SMA). No conspiracy theory >> there. >>>> >>>> Finally, Flarm encryption came about due to a genuine privacy issue. >>> Other entities were decrypting Flarm data to display personal >>> information in contravention of EU privacy legislation. I couldn't >>> give two hoots if someone tracks my gliders position on OGN, >>> FlightAware, FlightRadar24 etc but others may and can try suing the >>> bejesus out of PowerFLARM for letting it happen. A detailed article in >> Gliding International covered this. >>>> >>>> If I recall correctly, Flarm have undertaken to share their collision >>> avoidance technology with other manufacturers in the interests of >>> safety, once the privacy issue is addressed. So long as they keep >>> their word on this, I have no problem with the path they've taken. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Casey >>>> PowerFLARM user since 2012 >>>> >>>> iPad transmission >>>> >>>>> On 21 May 2015, at 10:07, [email protected] >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) >>>>> 2. Re: flarmin' hell (Grietje Wansink) 3. Re: flarmin' hell (Mike >>>>> Borgelt) 4. Re: flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> - >>>>> - >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:04:03 +1000 >>>>> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> <caph3ineq_4-2zbo0zwqmrd-cxyz04jd9cudysza1pf1ods9...@mail.gmail.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-ag >>>>> a inst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>> >>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! >>>>> >>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people >>>>> own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy a >>> powerFlarm. >>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>> Erich >>>>> >>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no >>>>> indication of >>> direction. >>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachmen >>>>> t s/20150521/01668b35/attachment.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:12:35 +1000 >>>>> From: Grietje Wansink <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >>>>> >>>>> As far as I have understood and experienced: >>>>> >>>>> Powerflarm dedicated to Australia will work in Australia (we have >>>>> two gliders to confirm) but when dedicated to Europe will NOT work >>>>> in Australia (we can confirm that also :-( ). >>>>> >>>>> LX integrated flarm will automatically change to Australian >>>>> frequency when they find themselves in Australia. >>>>> We also have experienced this. >>>>> Encryption will not change this as it is automatically. >>>>> >>>>> Also I thought GFA is looking into this matter as it will have >>>>> consequences for the WGC Junior competition in Narromine and the WGC >>>>> in Benalla. >>>>> >>>>> Grietje >>>>> >>>>>> On 21/05/2015 10:04 am, Erich Wittstock wrote: >>>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-a >>>>>> g ainst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>>> >>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! >>>>>> >>>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people >>>>>> own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >>>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy >>>>>> a powerFlarm. >>>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>>> Erich >>>>>> >>>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no >>>>>> indication of direction. >>>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachmen >>>>> t s/20150521/eb6c53ac/attachment.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 3 >>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:23:01 +1000 >>>>> From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" >>>>> >>>>> Erich, >>>>> >>>>> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be >>>>> seeing Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction >>>>> information in the message. Or Mode C returns which won't give >>>>> direction either. Both should give relative altitudes though. >>>>> >>>>> OK what is TABS? >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: >>>>>> <https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition- >>>>>> a >>>>>> gainst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol>https:/ >>>>>> gainst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol>/ >>>>>> www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-against-f >>>>>> l arm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>>> >>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! >>>>>> >>>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people >>>>>> own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >>>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy >>>>>> a powerFlarm. >>>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>>> Erich >>>>>> >>>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no >>>>>> indication of direction. >>>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>>> ? >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> >>>>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >>>>> instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com >>>>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>>>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >>>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachmen >>>>> t s/20150521/c05f252a/attachment.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 4 >>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:07:28 +1000 >>>>> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>> Message-ID: >>>>> >>>>> <caph3ing2vymp3vza0lrqzlmupxm+gjkjdmqfea9cu2s-ls0...@mail.gmail.com> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Mike (et al), >>>>> yes, ADSB will give direction and altitude in a TCAS system. >>>>> But if you are "just" a glider pilot and you purchase a powerflarm - >>>>> it still is not the best solution. Just more expensive. >>>>> If you have a PowerFlarm and hook transponder data into it: you do >>>>> not get a direction warning indication, just "incoming". Only Flarm >>>>> traffic is shown comprehensively, even with climb rate etc... >>>>> The direction / altitude data from a transponder only appears after >>>>> you throw a few thousand dollars more at your glider instrument >>>>> panel and get additional boxes containing magic smoke. >>>>> >>>>> TABS: "Traffic Advisory Broadcast System". >>>>>> From my understanding: it is backwards compatible: It is another >>>>>> (new) box >>>>> containing magic smoke and is able to mix Flarm and transponder >>>>> smoke. It will cost less than buying a transponder and powerflarm. >>>>> "TSO-C199" is the data-sheet for the new smoke. >>>>> http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/2015%20ADSBSITF14/SP08b_FAA%20TABS >>>>> % >>>>> 20briefing.pdf >>>>> >>>>> I am looking after my original OZFlarm and wait for TABS. >>>>> However, encrypting the Flarm protocol would mean I would have to >>>>> fork out >>>>> $2500 for a powerflarm just because the Flarm makers are greedy and >>>>> want all other manufacturers out of their business. >>>>> My existing OZFlarm would be useless even as a paperweight since it >>>>> is too light (that's why it is great for a glider). >>>>> >>>>> The good 'ol flarm can be configured via software (by the user) to >>>>> operate at different frequencies - to work in different countries. >>>>> Later Flarm firmware versions switch frequencies automatically and >>>>> allow you to take a flarm from Europe to the US and Australia >>>>> without any >>> problems. >>>>> Powerflarms have to be configured by the manufacturer to change >>>>> frequencies >>>>> - and the Flarmin Swiss Company will charge a few toblerones for that! >>> Why? >>>>> because they can! >>>>> ...make sure you select the "US/Australia" powerflarm from the >>>>> millenair website, if you really have to buy a powerflarm and can't >>>>> wait >>> for TABS. >>>>> >>>>> Third party manufacturers such as LX Nav / LX Navigation utilise the >>>>> good 'ol flarm in their devices - that's why they switch >>>>> automatically according where you are. However, I can foresee that >>>>> being stopped by the "flarm data encryption". You will need two >>>>> powerflarms: One for Europe and the other for US/Australia. >>>>> >>>>> A bit like no longer being able to take your phone overseas and >>>>> just using it with a sim card from that country.. >>>>> >>>>> Lucky for us users: there are enough brainy people out there that >>>>> are capable of designing something that is far superior to flarm. >>>>> Erich >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mike Borgelt < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Erich, >>>>>> >>>>>> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be >>>>>> seeing Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction >>>>>> information in the message. Or Mode C returns which won't give >>>>>> direction either. Both should give relative altitudes though. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK what is TABS? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-a >>>>>> g ainst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>>> >>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! >>>>>> >>>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people >>>>>> own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >>>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy >>>>>> a >>> powerFlarm. >>>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>>> Erich >>>>>> >>>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no >>>>>> indication of >>> direction. >>>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>>> ? >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>> >>>>>> *Borgelt Instruments* - >>>>>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 >>>>>> * www.borgeltinstruments.com >>>>>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>>>>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >>>>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>> scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachmen >>>>> t s/20150521/2dc522d2/attachment.html> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>> >>>>> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 >>>>> ******************************************** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> Message: 2 >>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 13:14:34 +1000 >>>> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 >>>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Message-ID: >>>> >>>> <caph3infsfuvpcpgv8efhqxyfcm0fqmx+a1yk3nqxuhy9hvr...@mail.gmail.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>> >>>> So far it's a hit by a "spud gun". You don't even wanna know that the >>>> shot gun impact would look like.. ;-) >>>> >>>> I am not worried about other gliders - they will be flarm equipped. I >>>> do worry about GA traffic. Because any "near-miss" will compromise >>>> our freedom of (gliding) ability. >>>> PowerFlarm will tell me: there is a transponder signal in a "near >>>> enough is good enough" manner (no punt intended). >>>> >>>> OK, taken from the powerflarm manual: >>>> *Mode C signals only carry altitude information, but no >>>> identification. To avoid that an the aircraft?s own Mode C >>>> transponder is constantly displayed as a very close target, >>>> PowerFLARM identifies the strongest Mode C signal and suppresses it.* >>>> (no surprise here - that's why mode-s was implemented) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *ADS-B alertsADS-B OUT broadcasts have originally been designed for >>>> ground- based surveillance and collision avoidance by Air Traffic >>>> Control. The use of ADS-B for airborne collision alerts is often >>>> limited by factors such as:? Absence of horizontal and/or vertical >>>> speed data? Absence of GPS altitude data? Erroneous transmission of >>> position and/or velocity data? >>>> Time lag in position data* >>>> ...bla bla bla... and then this: >>>> *However, ADS-B does not provide sufficiently precise data to warn >>>> about glider traffic with its frequent altitude changes and steep >>>> turns.* *To ensure best alert quality, PowerFLARM therefore does not >>>> use ADS-B data to compute alerts for glider targets. Instead, it will >>>> exclusively rely on the target's much more precise FLARM data.* >>>> >>>> I want to be able to see the Flying Doctor and the >>>> Mining-fly-in-fly-out plane just like a flarm target. And that is not >>>> the case with a powerFlarm unless these planes are flarm equipped. >>>> All you get is: "incoming" - no direction. >>>> >>>> PowerFlarm does not display transponder traffic sufficiently. >>>> >>>> I am waiting for TABS and am happy to pay $1500 for something that >>>> actually works. >>>> Erich >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Casey Jay Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Take that shotgun off your hip Erich, before you have someone's eye >>>>> out! :P >>>>> >>>>> It seems you're confusing ADS-B Out with PowerFLARM and its >>>>> capabilities/requirements. >>>>> >>>>> You've also claimed 'range ring' only for ADS-B equipped traffic and >>>>> that's just not true. >>>>> >>>>> With a PowerFLARM, you will see relative distance and altitude >>>>> information >>>>> for: >>>>> - PowerFLARM traffic >>>>> - OzFLARM traffic >>>>> - ADS-B equipped traffic >>>>> You don't need any other equipment / 'smoke generators' >>>>> >>>>> You will see reduced information for transponder only traffic, down >>>>> to a mere 'range ring' for Mode A/C transponders. >>>>> >>>>> It's unfortunate that OzFLARM et al is no longer supported but >>>>> they've clearly taken the decision to allow gradual obsolescence to >>>>> force upgrades to the latest standard, with all the associated >>>>> benefits >>> that entails. >>>>> Make no mistake, all the legacy equipment will keep working just as >>>>> it always has. >>>>> >>>>> PowerFLARM USA/AUS are compatible. PowerFLARM EUR is not. Not only >>>>> are the frequencies different (EUR freq prohibited in the USA) but >>>>> the FCC also mandate the connector type (reverse SMA). No >>>>> conspiracy >>> theory there. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, Flarm encryption came about due to a genuine privacy issue. >>>>> Other entities were decrypting Flarm data to display personal >>>>> information in contravention of EU privacy legislation. I couldn't >>>>> give two hoots if someone tracks my gliders position on OGN, >>>>> FlightAware, FlightRadar24 etc but others may and can try suing the >>>>> bejesus out of PowerFLARM for letting it happen. A detailed article >>>>> in >>> Gliding International covered this. >>>>> >>>>> If I recall correctly, Flarm have undertaken to share their >>>>> collision avoidance technology with other manufacturers in the >>>>> interests of safety, once the privacy issue is addressed. So long >>>>> as they keep their word on this, I have no problem with the path > they've >> taken. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Casey >>>>> PowerFLARM user since 2012 >>>>> >>>>> iPad transmission >>>>> >>>>>>> On 21 May 2015, at 10:07, >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>>> than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) >>>>>> 2. Re: flarmin' hell (Grietje Wansink) 3. Re: flarmin' hell (Mike >>>>>> Borgelt) 4. Re: flarmin' hell (Erich Wittstock) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> - >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 1 >>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:04:03 +1000 >>>>>> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> >>>>>> <caph3ineq_4-2zbo0zwqmrd-cxyz04jd9cudysza1pf1ods9...@mail.gmail.com >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-ag >>>>> a inst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>>> >>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>> working >>>>>> flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! >>>>>> >>>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some people >>>>>> own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >>>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy >>>>>> a >>>>> powerFlarm. >>>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>>> Erich >>>>>> >>>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no >>>>>> indication of >>>>> direction. >>>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>>> scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachment >>>>> s >>>>> /20150521/01668b35/attachment.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 2 >>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:12:35 +1000 >>>>>> From: Grietje Wansink <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >>>>>> >>>>>> As far as I have understood and experienced: >>>>>> >>>>>> Powerflarm dedicated to Australia will work in Australia (we have >>>>>> two gliders to confirm) but when dedicated to Europe will NOT work >>>>>> in Australia (we can confirm that also :-( ). >>>>>> >>>>>> LX integrated flarm will automatically change to Australian >>>>>> frequency when they find themselves in Australia. >>>>>> We also have experienced this. >>>>>> Encryption will not change this as it is automatically. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also I thought GFA is looking into this matter as it will have >>>>>> consequences for the WGC Junior competition in Narromine and the >>>>>> WGC in Benalla. >>>>>> >>>>>> Grietje >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 21/05/2015 10:04 am, Erich Wittstock wrote: >>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-ag >>>>> a inst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>>>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some >>>>>>> people own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >>>>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy >>>>>>> a powerFlarm. >>>>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>>>> Erich >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no >>>>>>> indication of direction. >>>>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>>> scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachment >>>>> s >>>>> /20150521/eb6c53ac/attachment.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 3 >>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 11:23:01 +1000 >>>>>> From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" >>>>>> >>>>>> Erich, >>>>>> >>>>>> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be >>>>>> seeing Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction >>>>>> information in the message. Or Mode C returns which won't give >>>>>> direction either. Both should give relative altitudes though. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK what is TABS? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: >>>>>>> < >>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-ag >>>>> a inst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-ag >>>>> a inst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>>>> working flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly >>>>> $2500! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some >>>>>>> people own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation >>>>> Zeus.. >>>>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy >>>>>>> a powerFlarm. >>>>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>>>> Erich >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>>>> like a joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no >>>>>>> indication of direction. >>>>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>> >>>>>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >>>>>> instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com >>>>>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>>>>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >>>>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>>> scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachment >>>>> s >>>>> /20150521/c05f252a/attachment.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Message: 4 >>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 12:07:28 +1000 >>>>>> From: Erich Wittstock <[email protected]> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flarmin' hell >>>>>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> Message-ID: >>>>>> >>>>>> <caph3ing2vymp3vza0lrqzlmupxm+gjkjdmqfea9cu2s-ls0...@mail.gmail.com >>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Mike (et al), >>>>>> yes, ADSB will give direction and altitude in a TCAS system. >>>>>> But if you are "just" a glider pilot and you purchase a powerflarm >>>>>> - it still is not the best solution. Just more expensive. >>>>>> If you have a PowerFlarm and hook transponder data into it: you do >>>>>> not >>>>> get >>>>>> a direction warning indication, just "incoming". Only Flarm traffic >>>>>> is shown comprehensively, even with climb rate etc... >>>>>> The direction / altitude data from a transponder only appears after >>>>>> you throw a few thousand dollars more at your glider instrument >>>>>> panel and get additional boxes containing magic smoke. >>>>>> >>>>>> TABS: "Traffic Advisory Broadcast System". >>>>>>> From my understanding: it is backwards compatible: It is another >>>>>>> (new) >>>>> box >>>>>> containing magic smoke and is able to mix Flarm and transponder >>>>>> smoke. It will cost less than buying a transponder and powerflarm. >>>>>> "TSO-C199" is the data-sheet for the new smoke. >>>>> http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/2015%20ADSBSITF14/SP08b_FAA%20TABS >>>>> % >>>>> 20briefing.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> I am looking after my original OZFlarm and wait for TABS. >>>>>> However, encrypting the Flarm protocol would mean I would have to >>>>>> fork >>>>> out >>>>>> $2500 for a powerflarm just because the Flarm makers are greedy and >>>>>> want all other manufacturers out of their business. >>>>>> My existing OZFlarm would be useless even as a paperweight since it >>>>>> is >>>>> too >>>>>> light (that's why it is great for a glider). >>>>>> >>>>>> The good 'ol flarm can be configured via software (by the user) to >>>>> operate >>>>>> at different frequencies - to work in different countries. Later >>>>>> Flarm firmware versions switch frequencies automatically and allow >>>>>> you to take >>>>> a >>>>>> flarm from Europe to the US and Australia without any problems. >>>>>> Powerflarms have to be configured by the manufacturer to change >>>>> frequencies >>>>>> - and the Flarmin Swiss Company will charge a few toblerones for that! >>>>> Why? >>>>>> because they can! >>>>>> ...make sure you select the "US/Australia" powerflarm from the >>>>>> millenair website, if you really have to buy a powerflarm and can't >>>>>> wait >>> for TABS. >>>>>> >>>>>> Third party manufacturers such as LX Nav / LX Navigation utilise >>>>>> the good 'ol flarm in their devices - that's why they switch >>>>>> automatically >>>>> according >>>>>> where you are. However, I can foresee that being stopped by the >>>>>> "flarm >>>>> data >>>>>> encryption". You will need two powerflarms: One for Europe and the >>>>>> other for US/Australia. >>>>>> >>>>>> A bit like no longer being able to take your phone overseas and >>>>>> just >>>>> using >>>>>> it with a sim card from that country.. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lucky for us users: there are enough brainy people out there that >>>>>> are capable of designing something that is far superior to flarm. >>>>>> Erich >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Mike Borgelt < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Erich, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ADSB monitoring should give direction just like Flarm. You may be >>>>>>> seeing Mode S returns with no ADSB position/speed/direction >>>>>>> information in the message. Or Mode C returns which won't give >>>>>>> direction either. Both >>>>> should >>>>>>> give relative altitudes though. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OK what is TABS? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At 10:04 AM 21/05/2015, you wrote: >>>>> https://www.change.org/p/mr-urs-rothacher-flarm-chairman-petition-ag >>>>> a inst-flarm-decision-to-encrypt-the-communication-protocol >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please correct me if I am wrong: >>>>>>> Anyone who does not own a powerflarm should sign the petition. >>>>>>> ..unless you are happy with being forced to replace your perfectly >>>>> working >>>>>>> flarm with a powerflarm - that is nearly $2500! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Any OZflarm, miniOz, flarm-mouse, etc will be affected. Some >>>>>>> people own gadgets like LXNax LX90xx or LXNavigation Zeus.. >>>>>>> Guess what: the integrated flarm engine of your very nice but not >>>>>>> cheap instrument will be rendered useless and you will have to buy >>>>>>> a >>>>> powerFlarm. >>>>>>> ..I would sign if I were you. >>>>>>> Erich >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My personal view: PowerFlarm with ADSB traffic monitoring is a bit >>>>>>> like >>>>> a >>>>>>> joke. Yes, there is a warning of "incoming". But no indication of >>>>> direction. >>>>>>> TABS is in the making and looks very promising - and affordable. >>>>>>> ? >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Borgelt Instruments* - >>>>>>> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since >>>>>>> 1978 >>>>>>> * www.borgeltinstruments.com >>>>>>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>>>>>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >>>>>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>>>> scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: < >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachment >>>>> s >>>>> /20150521/2dc522d2/attachment.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>>> >>>>>> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 18 >>>>>> ******************************************** >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>>> scrubbed... >>>> URL: >>>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachment >>>> s >>>> /20150521/3324870f/attachment.html> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 20 >>>> ******************************************** >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 21 >>> ******************************************** >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 22 >>> ******************************************** >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 23 >> ******************************************** >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 24 >> ******************************************** > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 26 > ******************************************** > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 27 > ******************************************** _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
