Hi,

Please do not take this as expert Electrical Engineering advice!

A quick word on ATS/STS.

ATS are essentially automated mechanical switches.  They can “Make Before 
Break” or they can “Break Before Make” depending on their design and whichever 
arrangement is used is dictated by the Electrical Design as determined by the 
Electrical Engineer.  Case and Situation Specific, I would warn against 
generalising.  STS are Solid State devices which have no moving parts.  There 
are reasons why you would use either and it is best not to think of them as 
interchangeable.

ATS will normally live in a DC deep in the Electrical Distribution, if you 
don’t go to the Power Rooms, you many never see one.  STS tends to have smaller 
current carrying capacity and live nearer the IT.  For the case of Single Cord 
Equipment in a Dual Cord DC then, if it’s odd items in a rack, Rack Mount STS 
are usable.  If there’s lots of odd Single Cord Equipment within a DC then a 
3rd Supply can be considered but then you have to wonder why the customer is 
paying for Dual Cord in the first place…

The point of a real Dual Cord Environment is that Operators like NextDC, can do 
routine maintenance work and still maintain at least one supply to the IT load. 
 You need to consider single cord equipment in that context and, under the SLA, 
It is probably going be your problem to keep it powered, not theirs…
  
John

On 10/8/17, 4:26 PM, "AusNOG on behalf of ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net" 
<ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net on behalf of ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net> 
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    Today's Topics:
    
       1. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th
          August (Sam Silvester)
       2. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th
          August (Peter Tiggerdine)
       3. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th
          August (Chad Kelly)
       4. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th
          August (James Hodgkinson)
    
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Message: 1
    Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 15:38:14 +0930
    From: Sam Silvester <sam.silves...@gmail.com>
    To: James Braunegg <james.braun...@micron21.com>
    Cc: "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>
    Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
        15th    August
    Message-ID:
        <CAAAhk6-CMRyG2xY0Q7i0-dZ-=pocc_pspdmleges23jpp_r...@mail.gmail.com>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
    
    Hi James,
    
    A quick Google tells me APC ATS are break before make, so that is certainly
    not the defining feature of an ATS vs. STS.
    
    For cost effective provision of a 'C feed' in racks to catch those pesky
    single corded devices you just can't live without I see no reason at all to
    go to the expense of typically larger and more expensive STS, happy to
    learn more though.
    
    Sam
    
    
    
    On Thursday, 10 August 2017, James Braunegg <james.braun...@micron21.com>
    wrote:
    
    > Dear All
    >
    >
    >
    > Anyone with single power supply devices please do not look at getting an
    > ATS, get a STS !!!
    >
    >
    >
    > *Short version*
    >
    >
    >
    > ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) will typically break power before it
    > makes, thus the connected device could reboot !!
    >
    >
    >
    > STS (Static Transfer Switch) will make power before it breaks, providing
    > no break to the power  !
    >
    >
    >
    > An example of a recommended device is below
    >
    >
    >
    > https://www.vertivco.com/en-asia/products-catalog/
    > critical-power/power-transfer-switches/liebert-lts-63-to-400a/
    >
    >
    >
    > Kindest Regards,
    >
    >
    >
    > *James Braunegg*
    >
    > [image: cid:image001.png@01D280A4.01865B60]
    >
    > 1300 769 972 / 0488 997 207 <1300%20769%20972>
    >
    > *ja...@micron21.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ja...@micron21.com');>*
    >
    > www.micron21.com/
    >
    > [image: cid:image002.png@01D280A4.01865B60] <http://www.micron21.com/>
    >
    > [image: cid:image003.png@01D280A4.01865B60]
    > <https://www.facebook.com/micron21/>
    >
    > [image: cid:image004.png@01D280A4.01865B60] <https://twitter.com/micron21>
    >
    > Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/micron21> for important service
    > and system updates.
    >
    > This message is intended for the addressee named above. It may contain
    > privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended
    > recipient of this message you must not use, copy, distribute or disclose 
it
    > to anyone other than the addressee. If you have received this message in
    > error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and then
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    >
    >
    >
    >
    > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net
    > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net');>] *On
    > Behalf Of *Matthew Smee
    > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 12:00 PM
    > *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
    > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');>
    > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
    > 15th August
    >
    >
    >
    > +1
    >
    > Every DC agreement I?ve seen (3) have mentioned that you are responsible
    > for supplying it with power and they aren?t responsible if it loses power
    > (i.e. use an ATS).
    >
    >
    >
    > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net
    > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net');>] *On
    > Behalf Of *Sam Silvester
    > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 10:14 AM
    > *To:* Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com
    > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sh...@rackcentral.com');>>
    > *Cc:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
    > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');>
    > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
    > 15th August
    >
    >
    >
    > If you have single fed equipment in your rack that needs planning before
    > it can be shut down, do you not run a totally forseeable and preventable
    > risk then should that one feed trip?
    >
    >
    >
    > This is what ATS are for.
    >
    >
    >
    > Sam
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com
    > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sh...@rackcentral.com');>> wrote:
    >
    > HI Simon,
    >
    >
    >
    > Thank you for your input to the list.
    >
    >
    >
    > While you may have provided notifications well in advance, your schedule
    > provided has been changed multiple times and this creates confusion.
    >
    > Without asking for further clarification last night I would never have
    > received the following updated schedule from Craig Armstrong today.
    >
    >
    >
    > Data Hall 2 ? B feed (west/blue PDU side) Tuesday 15th Aug, A feed has
    > been pushed back to later date around November, you will receive official
    > notice once new date confirmed.
    >
    > Data Hall 3 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around
    > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date 
confirmed.
    >
    > Data Hall 4 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around
    > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date 
confirmed.
    >
    >
    >
    > From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works are being
    > postponed for the time being
    >
    >
    >
    > Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is involved with
    > these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate information
    > about any pending outages or upgrades
    > to the NextDC DataCentres which affect services.
    >
    >
    >
    > Additionally, I have not received these updates via the normal NextDC
    > E-Mail communication method, so I am sure other customers will be 
wondering
    > whats happening too.
    >
    >
    >
    > Happy to have a conversation offline about this feel free to give me a
    > call on my mobile.
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Shaun
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of 
*Simon
    > Cooper
    > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 8:39 AM
    > *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
    > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
    > 15th August
    >
    >
    >
    > Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.
    >
    >
    >
    > At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure maintenance
    > that impacts racks or the environment within the data hall to an absolute
    > minimum.
    >
    >
    >
    > However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law and
    > one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of each of our
    > major switchboards.  This is all about ensuring that the electrical system
    > is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work. Rightly so.
    >
    >
    >
    > Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it, and
    > we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the rack.  This
    > occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we provide this
    > capability.  Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A & B feeds) will 
simply
    > see its power swing from one feed to the other.  Any rack that is drawing
    > no more that its contracted power level will have no issue when all 
devices
    > move from A to B or vice versa.
    >
    >
    >
    > Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give customers
    > time to consider the management of these works and we don't assume that
    > every rack is perfectly deployed:  We are here 24/7 to assist customers
    > with rack inspections or specific circuit down tests or maybe a controlled
    > move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that are single fed).
    >
    >
    >
    > Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we understand the
    > timing in relation to their businesses, and we work very hard to 
coordinate
    > schedules despite each switch board supporting many different customers 
and
    > customer instances across the data centre.  Occasionally that means we 
have
    > to make a difficult decisions which may result in schedule changes.  When
    > that does happen, we do not compromise our notification periods.
    >
    >
    >
    > I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best offline
    > or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our absolute best 
to
    > keep your data centre operating safely and reliably for many years to 
come.
    >
    >
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Simon
    >
    > COO, NEXTDC
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > *From:* nat...@nightsys.net
    > *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000
    > *To:* sh...@rackcentral.com
    > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
    > 15th August
    >
    > This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A and B
    > feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall 2 and A 
on
    > Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but not entirely
    > unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad in both, staff get
    > stretched thin remediating issues).
    >
    >
    >
    > A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment, allowing
    > one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other. Anything mission
    > critical should be able to draw from either feed as required (dual PSU),
    > and if there is a power deficit on one feed (causing circuits to trip),
    > that would imply the circuits are incorrectly sized?
    >
    >
    >
    > In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply would be
    > on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent devices installed with
    > one on each rail?
    >
    >
    >
    > Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes, better
    > than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying you is better
    > than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better than unscheduled
    > :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a close eye on things)
    >
    >
    >
    > Nathan.
    >
    >
    >
    > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls we
    > occupy.
    >
    >
    >
    > DataHall 2
    >
    > A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
    > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
    >
    >
    >
    > DataHall 3
    >
    > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10
    > B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10
    >
    >
    >
    > DataHall 4
    >
    > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
    >
    >
    >
    > ?         So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on the same day.
    >
    > ?         Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A rail on the 8th of August but
    > has been re-scheduled with no new date of works.
    >
    > ?         Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the
    >
    >
    >
    > Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for Data
    > Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification
    >
    > Just now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for Data Hall
    > 2 and 3.
    >
    >
    >
    > This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even started.
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Shaun
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of 
*Murat
    > Sener
    > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM
    > *To:* Matthew VK3EVL <hit...@itglowz.com>; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
    >
    >
    > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
    > 15th August
    >
    >
    >
    > We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as per
    > original schedule and Feed A is yet to be rescheduled.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > *Murat Sener*     Datacentre Manager
    >
    > *PREMIER* Technology Solutions
    > *P. *1300 76 76 48    *F. *1300 76 76 49    *M. *0450 604 350
    >
    >
    >
    > *How am I doing? Let us know!*
    > SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE FEEDBACK
    >
    > *GREAT*
    >
    > *AVERAGE*
    >
    > *BAD*
    >
    > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZXg4BxUQRobS3?domain=crewhu.com>
    >
    > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/m4kKB9UQ4mAS1?domain=crewhu.com>
    >
    > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/krZGBXug3DJiw?domain=crewhu.com>
    >
    >
    >
    > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of 
*Matthew
    > VK3EVL
    > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM
    > *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
    > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
    > 15th August
    >
    >
    >
    > What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same time?
    >
    >
    >
    > On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:
    >
    > HI Damien,
    >
    >
    >
    > My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about the works
    > being completed during business hours?
    >
    > What about increased loading of the active rail once one of them is
    > switched off for these works?
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Shaun
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rend...@rendrag.net]
    > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM
    > *To:* <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net> <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>; Shaun McGuane
    > <sh...@rackcentral.com>
    > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
    > 15th August
    >
    >
    >
    > It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST)
    >
    >
    >
    > On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > HI Noggers,
    >
    >
    >
    > Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification happening next
    > week?
    >
    > They maybe upgrading feeds or boards throughout the datacentre ? has
    > everyone seen this notification of works?
    >
    > It appears to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for all
    > Datahalls on the same date.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > *WHAT:*
    > NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of specialist
    > contractors, will conduct offline preventative electrical maintenance work
    > on high-voltage and low-voltage main isolators. This will affect A and B
    > feeds to the racks in Data Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August.
    >
    > *WHEN:*
    > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
    > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
    >
    > *HOW AM I AFFECTED?*
    > Due to the nature of the work a single feed will be removed as per the
    > dates and times above. We recommend that customers balance the power
    > between both power rails to minimise impact during this period. If you 
have
    > single feed devices we recommend you:
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards
    >
    > Shaun
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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    ------------------------------
    
    Message: 2
    Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:11:48 +1000
    From: Peter Tiggerdine <ptiggerd...@gmail.com>
    To: Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au>
    Cc: "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>,
        "ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net>
    Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance
        -,      15th August
    Message-ID:
        <cahgllqb789cbeyy50qyfjgc1zr4swbc3nxkg_avnsg6uco_...@mail.gmail.com>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
    
    disagree.
    
    Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to
    assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU
    fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get
    same day resolution.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Peter Tiggerdine
    
    GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127
    
    
    On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au> wrote:
    >
    > Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does appear to 
be
    > an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be better off
    > doing this out of business hours I would of thought.
    > Regards Chad.
    >
    >
    > On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
    >>
    >> Chad,
    >>
    >> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for
    >> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service.  There 
is a
    >> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking extra load
    >> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with PDU's.
    >>
    >> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be ignored
    >> especially during those times.
    >>
    >> Kindest Regards,
    >> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Chad
    >> Kelly
    >> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM
    >> To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net; ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net
    >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -,
    >> 15th August
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net wrote:
    >>>
    >>>   From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works are
    >>> being postponed for the time being
    >>>
    >>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is involved
    >>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
    >>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC 
DataCentres
    >>> which affect services.
    >>
    >> If these services are mission critical then you really should have duel
    >> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment
    >> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just disconnect both
    >> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC was 
offline
    >> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather awkward
    >> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it wouldn't be
    >> good for the owners lets put it that way.
    >> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located equipment
    >> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude liability 
under
    >> your maintenance clauses.
    >> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment in a DC
    >> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that come 
with
    >> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid.
    >> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you should have
    >> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid does 
happen
    >> that you can't control you at least still have services online as the 
load
    >> balanced services would just switch.
    >> Regards Chad.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Chad Kelly
    >> Manager
    >> CPK Web Services
    >> Phone 03 5273 0246
    >> Web www.cpkws.com.au
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> AusNOG mailing list
    >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
    >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
    >
    >
    > --
    > Chad Kelly
    > Manager
    > CPK Web Services
    > Phone 03 5273 0246
    > Web www.cpkws.com.au
    >
    > _______________________________________________
    > AusNOG mailing list
    > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
    > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
    
    
    ------------------------------
    
    Message: 3
    Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:41:08 +1000
    From: Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au>
    To: Peter Tiggerdine <ptiggerd...@gmail.com>
    Cc: "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>,
        "ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net>
    Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance
        -, 15th August
    Message-ID: <945c1e17-7406-e4d3-3340-bee89f4d5...@cpkws.com.au>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
    
    Yeah bit of a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't type situation.
    
    
    
    On 8/10/2017 4:11 PM, Peter Tiggerdine wrote:
    > disagree.
    >
    > Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to
    > assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU
    > fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get
    > same day resolution.
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Peter Tiggerdine
    >
    > GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127
    >
    >
    > On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au> wrote:
    >> Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does appear 
to be
    >> an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be better off
    >> doing this out of business hours I would of thought.
    >> Regards Chad.
    >>
    >>
    >> On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
    >>> Chad,
    >>>
    >>> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for
    >>> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service.  There 
is a
    >>> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking extra load
    >>> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with PDU's.
    >>>
    >>> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be ignored
    >>> especially during those times.
    >>>
    >>> Kindest Regards,
    >>> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
    >>>
    >>> -----Original Message-----
    >>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Chad
    >>> Kelly
    >>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM
    >>> To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net; ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net
    >>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -,
    >>> 15th August
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net wrote:
    >>>>    From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works are
    >>>> being postponed for the time being
    >>>>
    >>>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is involved
    >>>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
    >>>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC 
DataCentres
    >>>> which affect services.
    >>> If these services are mission critical then you really should have duel
    >>> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment
    >>> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just disconnect 
both
    >>> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC was 
offline
    >>> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather awkward
    >>> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it wouldn't be
    >>> good for the owners lets put it that way.
    >>> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located equipment
    >>> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude liability 
under
    >>> your maintenance clauses.
    >>> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment in a 
DC
    >>> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that come 
with
    >>> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid.
    >>> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you should have
    >>> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid does 
happen
    >>> that you can't control you at least still have services online as the 
load
    >>> balanced services would just switch.
    >>> Regards Chad.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Chad Kelly
    >>> Manager
    >>> CPK Web Services
    >>> Phone 03 5273 0246
    >>> Web www.cpkws.com.au
    >>>
    >>> _______________________________________________
    >>> AusNOG mailing list
    >>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
    >>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
    >>
    >> --
    >> Chad Kelly
    >> Manager
    >> CPK Web Services
    >> Phone 03 5273 0246
    >> Web www.cpkws.com.au
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> AusNOG mailing list
    >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
    >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
    
    -- 
    Chad Kelly
    Manager
    CPK Web Services
    Phone 03 5273 0246
    Web www.cpkws.com.au
    
    
    
    ------------------------------
    
    Message: 4
    Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:26:45 +1000
    From: James Hodgkinson <yale...@ricetek.net>
    To: Sam Silvester <sam.silves...@gmail.com>, Jared Hirst
        <jared.hi...@serversaustralia.com.au>
    Cc: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
    Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
        15th August
    Message-ID:
        <1502353605.3647578.1068981528.3f4d0...@webmail.messagingengine.com>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
    
    We have a tech on site tomorrow morning in Brisbane to do live works on
    a major DC panel, they need a look out with a torch, insulating matting
    and a few other things but it's legal.
    James
    
    
    On Thu, 10 Aug 2017, at 16:04, Sam Silvester wrote:
    > I also am unaware of such a law. Simon, can you advise?
    > 
    > I'm told in QLD that live works are not permitted, but I am in SA so I
    > have not really bothered too much to check if that is hearsay or true.> 
    > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Jared Hirst
    > <jared.hi...@serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:>> 
    >> Hi Simon,
    >> 
    >> Maybe it could be helpful to the Ausnog list to point us to that law
    >> you refer too?>> 
    >> As I personally have never heard or seen this done in any DC in
    >> Australia, or the world in the past 15 years I have been housing gear
    >> in Data Centres.>> 
    >> I agree that gear should have 2N, and it doesn?t affect me, but there
    >> are people that have equipment that have single fed devices, and I
    >> believe you don?t allow self installed STS devices to be installed? I
    >> could be wrong.>> 
    >> In any case, it would be interesting to see the law the requires you
    >> to shut down boards.>> 
    >> Regards,
    >> 
    >>  Jared Hirst
    >>  Servers Australia Pty Ltd
    >>  Phone: +61 2 8115 8801
    >>  Email: jared.hi...@serversaustralia.com.au
    >> 
    >> *From:* AusNOG <ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net> on behalf of Simon
    >> Cooper <s...@inbox.com> *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:39:13 AM
    >> *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC
    >> Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August>>  
    >> Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.
    >> 
    >> At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure
    >> maintenance that impacts racks or the environment within the data
    >> hall to an absolute minimum.>> 
    >> However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law
    >> and one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of
    >> each of our major switchboards.  This is all about ensuring that the
    >> electrical system is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work.
    >> Rightly so.>> 
    >> Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it,
    >> and we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the
    >> rack.  This occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we
    >> provide this capability.  Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A & B
    >> feeds) will simply see its power swing from one feed to the other.
    >> Any rack that is drawing no more that its contracted power level will
    >> have no issue when all devices move from A to B or vice versa.>> 
    >> Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give
    >> customers time to consider the management of these works and we don't
    >> assume that every rack is perfectly deployed:  We are here 24/7 to
    >> assist customers with rack inspections or specific circuit down tests
    >> or maybe a controlled move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that
    >> are single fed).>> 
    >> Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we
    >> understand the timing in relation to their businesses, and we work
    >> very hard to coordinate schedules despite each switch board
    >> supporting many different customers and customer instances across the
    >> data centre.  Occasionally that means we have to make a difficult
    >> decisions which may result in schedule changes.  When that does
    >> happen, we do not compromise our notification periods.>> 
    >> I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best
    >> offline or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our
    >> absolute best to keep your data centre operating safely and reliably
    >> for many years to come.>> 
    >> Thanks,
    >> Simon
    >> COO, NEXTDC
    >> 
    >>> -----Original Message-----
    >>> *From:* nat...@nightsys.net
    >>> *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000
    >>> *To:* sh...@rackcentral.com
    >>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
    >>> Maintenance - 15th August>>> 
    >>> This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A and
    >>> B feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall 2
    >>> and A on Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but
    >>> not entirely unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad
    >>> in both, staff get stretched thin remediating issues).>>> 
    >>> A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment,
    >>> allowing one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other.
    >>> Anything mission critical should be able to draw from either feed as
    >>> required (dual PSU), and if there is a power deficit on one feed
    >>> (causing circuits to trip), that would imply the circuits are
    >>> incorrectly sized?>>> 
    >>> In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply
    >>> would be on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent devices
    >>> installed with one on each rail?>>> 
    >>> Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes,
    >>> better than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying you
    >>> is better than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better
    >>> than unscheduled :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a
    >>> close eye on things)>>> 
    >>> Nathan.
    >>> 
    >>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane
    >>> <sh...@rackcentral.com> wrote:>>> 
    >>>> Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls
    >>>> we occupy.____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> DataHall 2____
    
    
    >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
    >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
    >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> DataHall 3____
    
    
    >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10
    >>>> B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
    >>>> +10____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> DataHall 4____
    
    
    >>>> 
    >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
    >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> 
    >>>> __?         __So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on the
    >>>> same day. ____>>>> __?         __Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A rail 
on the 8th of
    >>>> August but has been re-scheduled with no new date of works.____>>>> 
__?         __Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the ____
    
    
    >>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for
    >>>> Data Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification ____>>>> Just 
now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for
    >>>> Data Hall 2 and 3.____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even
    >>>> started.____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> Regards____
    
    
    >>>> Shaun____
    
    
    >>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
    >>>> Of *Murat Sener *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM *To:*
    >>>> Matthew VK3EVL <hit...@itglowz.com>; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>>>> 
    >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
    >>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>> 
    
    
    >>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as
    >>>> per original schedule and Feed A is yet to be rescheduled.____>>>> __ 
__
    
    
    >>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>> *Murat Sener*     Datacentre Manager____
    
    
    >>>> *PREMIER* Technology Solutions *P. *1300 76 76 48    *F. *1300 76
    >>>> 76 49    *M. *0450 604 350 ____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> *How am I doing? Let us know!* SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE
    >>>> FEEDBACK ____>>>> *GREAT____*
    
    
    >>>> *AVERAGE____*
    
    
    >>>> *BAD____*
    
    
    >>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
    >>>> Of *Matthew VK3EVL *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM *To:*
    >>>> ausnog@lists.ausnog.net *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne -
    >>>> Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same
    >>>> time?____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>> On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:____
    
    
    >>>>> HI Damien,____
    
    
    >>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>> My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about the
    >>>>> works being completed during business hours?____>>>>> What about 
increased loading of the active rail once one of them
    >>>>> is switched off for these works?____>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>> Regards____
    
    
    >>>>> Shaun____
    
    
    >>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>> *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rend...@rendrag.net] *Sent:*
    >>>>> Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM *To:* <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>
    >>>>> <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>; Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com>
    >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
    >>>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>> It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST)____
    
    
    >>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane
    >>>>> <sh...@rackcentral.com> wrote:____>>>>>> HI Noggers,____
    
    
    >>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>> Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification happening
    >>>>>> next week?____>>>>>> They maybe upgrading feeds or boards throughout 
the datacentre ?
    >>>>>> has everyone seen this notification of works?____>>>>>> It appears 
to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for
    >>>>>> all Datahalls on the same date.____>>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>> *WHAT:*
    >>>>>> NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of
    >>>>>> specialist contractors, will conduct offline preventative
    >>>>>> electrical maintenance work on high-voltage and low-voltage main
    >>>>>> isolators. This will affect A and B feeds to the racks in Data
    >>>>>> Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> *WHEN:* A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until
    >>>>>> 16:00 UTC +10. B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10
    >>>>>> until 16:00 UTC +10.>>>>>> 
    >>>>>> *HOW AM I AFFECTED?* Due to the nature of the work a single feed
    >>>>>> will be removed as per the dates and times above. We recommend
    >>>>>> that customers balance the power between both power rails to
    >>>>>> minimise impact during this period. If you have single feed
    >>>>>> devices we recommend you:____>>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>> Regards____
    
    
    >>>>>> Shaun____
    
    
    >>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>>  ____
    
    
    >>>>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>>>>  AusNOG mailing list
    >>>>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
    >>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____
    
    
    >>>>> -- ____
    
    
    >>>>> Damien Gardner Jnr
    >>>>>  VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
    >>>>> rend...@rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/_
    _--
    >>>>>  We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    >>>>>   We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    >>>>>  We danced among the lightning bolts,
    >>>>>   and tore the world asunder____
    
    
    >>>>> 
    >>>>> ____
    
    
    >>>>> ___________________________________________________
    >>>>> AusNOG mailing list____ AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net____
    >>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____>>>> __ __
    
    
    >>>>
    >>>> MESSAGE PROTECTED BY  *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS*[1] - POWERED
    >>>> BY  *MAILGUARD*[2].  Report this message as spam[3]
    >>>>   ____>>>>
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    >>>> BY  *MAILGUARD*[5].
    >>>>   ____>>>> 
    >>>> _______________________________________________
    >>>>  AusNOG mailing list
    >>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
    >>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
    >>>> 
    > _________________________________________________
    > AusNOG mailing list
    > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
    > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
    
    
    Links:
    
      1. http://www.premiertech.com.au
      2. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg
      3. 
https://console.mailguard.com.au/ras/1RqQHQIE5J/6DWUZjiMDnlts7JYyCLNB3/0
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