Hi John, There's nothing about an ATS that makes it generally 'large' or small relative to an STS.
Here's a 1RU, 10A ATS: http://www.apc.com/shop/au/en/products/RACK-ATS-10A-230V-12A-208V-C14-IN-12-C13-OUT/P-AP7721 I've got many dozen of these deployed in racks right by single corded equipment right now, and I often recommend them to customers who need to put single corded equipment on both the A and B feed to their rack. Meanwhile, to pick an example at one of our data centres, we have use a 1500A three phase ATS on the inputs to our UPS. Cheers, Sam On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 3:54 AM, John Duffin <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > > Please do not take this as expert Electrical Engineering advice! > > A quick word on ATS/STS. > > ATS are essentially automated mechanical switches. They can “Make Before > Break” or they can “Break Before Make” depending on their design and > whichever arrangement is used is dictated by the Electrical Design as > determined by the Electrical Engineer. Case and Situation Specific, I > would warn against generalising. STS are Solid State devices which have no > moving parts. There are reasons why you would use either and it is best > not to think of them as interchangeable. > > ATS will normally live in a DC deep in the Electrical Distribution, if you > don’t go to the Power Rooms, you many never see one. STS tends to have > smaller current carrying capacity and live nearer the IT. For the case of > Single Cord Equipment in a Dual Cord DC then, if it’s odd items in a rack, > Rack Mount STS are usable. If there’s lots of odd Single Cord Equipment > within a DC then a 3rd Supply can be considered but then you have to wonder > why the customer is paying for Dual Cord in the first place… > > The point of a real Dual Cord Environment is that Operators like NextDC, > can do routine maintenance work and still maintain at least one supply to > the IT load. You need to consider single cord equipment in that context > and, under the SLA, It is probably going be your problem to keep it > powered, not theirs… > > John > > On 10/8/17, 4:26 PM, "AusNOG on behalf of [email protected]" > <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]. > net> wrote: > > Send AusNOG mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of AusNOG digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th > August (Sam Silvester) > 2. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th > August (Peter Tiggerdine) > 3. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th > August (Chad Kelly) > 4. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th > August (James Hodgkinson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 15:38:14 +0930 > From: Sam Silvester <[email protected]> > To: James Braunegg <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - > 15th August > Message-ID: > <CAAAhk6-CMRyG2xY0Q7i0-dZ-=pOcC_PspDmLeGEs23jpP_R9bg@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi James, > > A quick Google tells me APC ATS are break before make, so that is > certainly > not the defining feature of an ATS vs. STS. > > For cost effective provision of a 'C feed' in racks to catch those > pesky > single corded devices you just can't live without I see no reason at > all to > go to the expense of typically larger and more expensive STS, happy to > learn more though. > > Sam > > > > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, James Braunegg < > [email protected]> > wrote: > > > Dear All > > > > > > > > Anyone with single power supply devices please do not look at > getting an > > ATS, get a STS !!! > > > > > > > > *Short version* > > > > > > > > ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) will typically break power before it > > makes, thus the connected device could reboot !! > > > > > > > > STS (Static Transfer Switch) will make power before it breaks, > providing > > no break to the power ! > > > > > > > > An example of a recommended device is below > > > > > > > > https://www.vertivco.com/en-asia/products-catalog/ > > critical-power/power-transfer-switches/liebert-lts-63-to-400a/ > > > > > > > > Kindest Regards, > > > > > > > > *James Braunegg* > > > > [image: cid:[email protected]] > > > > 1300 769 972 / 0488 997 207 <1300%20769%20972> > > > > *[email protected] <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected] > ');>* > > > > www.micron21.com/ > > > > [image: cid:[email protected]] < > http://www.micron21.com/> > > > > [image: cid:[email protected]] > > <https://www.facebook.com/micron21/> > > > > [image: cid:[email protected]] < > https://twitter.com/micron21> > > > > Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/micron21> for important > service > > and system updates. > > > > This message is intended for the addressee named above. It may > contain > > privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended > > recipient of this message you must not use, copy, distribute or > disclose it > > to anyone other than the addressee. If you have received this > message in > > error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and > then > > delete the message from your computer. > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:[email protected] > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] > *On > > Behalf Of *Matthew Smee > > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 12:00 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance - > > 15th August > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > Every DC agreement I?ve seen (3) have mentioned that you are > responsible > > for supplying it with power and they aren?t responsible if it loses > power > > (i.e. use an ATS). > > > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:[email protected] > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>] > *On > > Behalf Of *Sam Silvester > > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 10:14 AM > > *To:* Shaun McGuane <[email protected] > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> > > *Cc:* [email protected] > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');> > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance - > > 15th August > > > > > > > > If you have single fed equipment in your rack that needs planning > before > > it can be shut down, do you not run a totally forseeable and > preventable > > risk then should that one feed trip? > > > > > > > > This is what ATS are for. > > > > > > > > Sam > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Shaun McGuane <[email protected] > > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','[email protected]');>> wrote: > > > > HI Simon, > > > > > > > > Thank you for your input to the list. > > > > > > > > While you may have provided notifications well in advance, your > schedule > > provided has been changed multiple times and this creates confusion. > > > > Without asking for further clarification last night I would never > have > > received the following updated schedule from Craig Armstrong today. > > > > > > > > Data Hall 2 ? B feed (west/blue PDU side) Tuesday 15th Aug, A feed > has > > been pushed back to later date around November, you will receive > official > > notice once new date confirmed. > > > > Data Hall 3 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around > > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date > confirmed. > > > > Data Hall 4 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around > > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date > confirmed. > > > > > > > > From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works are > being > > postponed for the time being > > > > > > > > Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is > involved with > > these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate > information > > about any pending outages or upgrades > > to the NextDC DataCentres which affect services. > > > > > > > > Additionally, I have not received these updates via the normal NextDC > > E-Mail communication method, so I am sure other customers will be > wondering > > whats happening too. > > > > > > > > Happy to have a conversation offline about this feel free to give me > a > > call on my mobile. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Shaun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf > Of *Simon > > Cooper > > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 8:39 AM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance - > > 15th August > > > > > > > > Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. > > > > > > > > At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure > maintenance > > that impacts racks or the environment within the data hall to an > absolute > > minimum. > > > > > > > > However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law > and > > one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of each > of our > > major switchboards. This is all about ensuring that the electrical > system > > is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work. Rightly so. > > > > > > > > Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it, > and > > we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the > rack. This > > occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we provide this > > capability. Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A & B feeds) will > simply > > see its power swing from one feed to the other. Any rack that is > drawing > > no more that its contracted power level will have no issue when all > devices > > move from A to B or vice versa. > > > > > > > > Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give > customers > > time to consider the management of these works and we don't assume > that > > every rack is perfectly deployed: We are here 24/7 to assist > customers > > with rack inspections or specific circuit down tests or maybe a > controlled > > move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that are single fed). > > > > > > > > Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we > understand the > > timing in relation to their businesses, and we work very hard to > coordinate > > schedules despite each switch board supporting many different > customers and > > customer instances across the data centre. Occasionally that means > we have > > to make a difficult decisions which may result in schedule changes. > When > > that does happen, we do not compromise our notification periods. > > > > > > > > I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best > offline > > or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our absolute > best to > > keep your data centre operating safely and reliably for many years > to come. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Simon > > > > COO, NEXTDC > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > *From:* [email protected] > > *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000 > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance - > > 15th August > > > > This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A and > B > > feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall 2 > and A on > > Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but not > entirely > > unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad in both, > staff get > > stretched thin remediating issues). > > > > > > > > A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment, > allowing > > one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other. Anything > mission > > critical should be able to draw from either feed as required (dual > PSU), > > and if there is a power deficit on one feed (causing circuits to > trip), > > that would imply the circuits are incorrectly sized? > > > > > > > > In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply > would be > > on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent devices > installed with > > one on each rail? > > > > > > > > Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes, > better > > than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying you is > better > > than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better than > unscheduled > > :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a close eye on > things) > > > > > > > > Nathan. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > > Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls we > > occupy. > > > > > > > > DataHall 2 > > > > A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10. > > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10. > > > > > > > > DataHall 3 > > > > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10 > > B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10 > > > > > > > > DataHall 4 > > > > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10. > > > > > > > > ? So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on the same > day. > > > > ? Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A rail on the 8th of August > but > > has been re-scheduled with no new date of works. > > > > ? Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the > > > > > > > > Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for > Data > > Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification > > > > Just now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for > Data Hall > > 2 and 3. > > > > > > > > This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even started. > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Shaun > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf > Of *Murat > > Sener > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM > > *To:* Matthew VK3EVL <[email protected]>; [email protected] > > > > > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance - > > 15th August > > > > > > > > We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as per > > original schedule and Feed A is yet to be rescheduled. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Murat Sener* Datacentre Manager > > > > *PREMIER* Technology Solutions > > *P. *1300 76 76 48 *F. *1300 76 76 49 *M. *0450 604 350 > > > > > > > > *How am I doing? Let us know!* > > SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE FEEDBACK > > > > *GREAT* > > > > *AVERAGE* > > > > *BAD* > > > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZXg4BxUQRobS3?domain=crewhu.com> > > > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/m4kKB9UQ4mAS1?domain=crewhu.com> > > > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/krZGBXug3DJiw?domain=crewhu.com> > > > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf > Of *Matthew > > VK3EVL > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM > > *To:* [email protected] > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance - > > 15th August > > > > > > > > What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same time? > > > > > > > > On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote: > > > > HI Damien, > > > > > > > > My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about the > works > > being completed during business hours? > > > > What about increased loading of the active rail once one of them is > > switched off for these works? > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Shaun > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:[email protected]] > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM > > *To:* <[email protected]> <[email protected]>; Shaun > McGuane > > <[email protected]> > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance - > > 15th August > > > > > > > > It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST) > > > > > > > > On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > HI Noggers, > > > > > > > > Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification happening > next > > week? > > > > They maybe upgrading feeds or boards throughout the datacentre ? has > > everyone seen this notification of works? > > > > It appears to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for all > > Datahalls on the same date. > > > > > > > > > > > > *WHAT:* > > NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of specialist > > contractors, will conduct offline preventative electrical > maintenance work > > on high-voltage and low-voltage main isolators. This will affect A > and B > > feeds to the racks in Data Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August. > > > > *WHEN:* > > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10. > > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10. > > > > *HOW AM I AFFECTED?* > > Due to the nature of the work a single feed will be removed as per > the > > dates and times above. We recommend that customers balance the power > > between both power rails to minimise impact during this period. If > you have > > single feed devices we recommend you: > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Shaun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AusNOG mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pLG0B1fQrxkS1?domain= > lists.ausnog.net> > > > > -- > > > > Damien Gardner Jnr > > VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust > > [email protected] - http://www.rendrag.net/ > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Ld1wBKUl1AwIG?domain=rendrag.net> > > -- > > We rode on the winds of the rising storm, > > We ran to the sounds of thunder. > > We danced among the lightning bolts, > > and tore the world asunder > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AusNOG mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog < > https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pLG0B1fQrxkS1?domain=lists.ausnog.net> > > > > > > > > > > MESSAGE PROTECTED BY *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS* > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/GN1YBofq1r8tD?domain= > premiertech.com.au> > > - POWERED BY *MAILGUARD* > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/YZ5qB0uDN27IX?domain= > mailguard.com.au>. > > > > Report this message as spam > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/K410BnUo1JOHd?domain= > console.mailguard.com.au> > > > > > > > > > > MESSAGE PROTECTED BY *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS* > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/GN1YBofq1r8tD?domain= > premiertech.com.au> > > - POWERED BY *MAILGUARD* > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/YZ5qB0uDN27IX?domain= > mailguard.com.au>. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AusNOG mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pLG0B1fQrxkS1?domain= > lists.ausnog.net> > > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0001.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image012.png > Type: image/png > Size: 3771 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0008.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image005.png > Type: image/png > Size: 1047 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0009.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image006.png > Type: image/png > Size: 4219 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0010.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image009.png > Type: image/png > Size: 3738 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0011.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image011.png > Type: image/png > Size: 4714 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0012.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image008.png > Type: image/png > Size: 1246 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0013.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image007.png > Type: image/png > Size: 1137 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0014.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image010.png > Type: image/png > Size: 3778 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/c64e2595/attachment-0015.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:11:48 +1000 > From: Peter Tiggerdine <[email protected]> > To: Chad Kelly <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" <[email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance > -, 15th August > Message-ID: > <CAHgLLqb789cBEYY50QyFjGc1Zr4sWbc3nXkG_AVnsg6uCO_1SA@mail. > gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > disagree. > > Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to > assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU > fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get > same day resolution. > > > Regards, > > Peter Tiggerdine > > GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127 > > > On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does > appear to be > > an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be better > off > > doing this out of business hours I would of thought. > > Regards Chad. > > > > > > On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote: > >> > >> Chad, > >> > >> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for > >> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service. > There is a > >> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking extra > load > >> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with PDU's. > >> > >> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be > ignored > >> especially during those times. > >> > >> Kindest Regards, > >> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB) > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: AusNOG [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Chad > >> Kelly > >> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM > >> To: [email protected]; [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance -, > >> 15th August > >> > >> > >> > >> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >>> > >>> From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works > are > >>> being postponed for the time being > >>> > >>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is > involved > >>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate > >>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC > DataCentres > >>> which affect services. > >> > >> If these services are mission critical then you really should have > duel > >> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment > >> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just > disconnect both > >> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC was > offline > >> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather awkward > >> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it > wouldn't be > >> good for the owners lets put it that way. > >> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located > equipment > >> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude > liability under > >> your maintenance clauses. > >> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment > in a DC > >> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that > come with > >> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid. > >> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you should > have > >> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid > does happen > >> that you can't control you at least still have services online as > the load > >> balanced services would just switch. > >> Regards Chad. > >> > >> -- > >> Chad Kelly > >> Manager > >> CPK Web Services > >> Phone 03 5273 0246 > >> Web www.cpkws.com.au > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> AusNOG mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > > > > -- > > Chad Kelly > > Manager > > CPK Web Services > > Phone 03 5273 0246 > > Web www.cpkws.com.au > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AusNOG mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:41:08 +1000 > From: Chad Kelly <[email protected]> > To: Peter Tiggerdine <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, > "[email protected]" <[email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance > -, 15th August > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Yeah bit of a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't type situation. > > > > On 8/10/2017 4:11 PM, Peter Tiggerdine wrote: > > disagree. > > > > Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to > > assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU > > fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get > > same day resolution. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Peter Tiggerdine > > > > GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127 > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does > appear to be > >> an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be > better off > >> doing this out of business hours I would of thought. > >> Regards Chad. > >> > >> > >> On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote: > >>> Chad, > >>> > >>> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for > >>> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service. > There is a > >>> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking > extra load > >>> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with > PDU's. > >>> > >>> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be > ignored > >>> especially during those times. > >>> > >>> Kindest Regards, > >>> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB) > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: AusNOG [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Chad > >>> Kelly > >>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM > >>> To: [email protected]; [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > Maintenance -, > >>> 15th August > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >>>> From the latest update today, It appears that most of the > works are > >>>> being postponed for the time being > >>>> > >>>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is > involved > >>>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate > >>>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC > DataCentres > >>>> which affect services. > >>> If these services are mission critical then you really should have > duel > >>> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment > >>> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just > disconnect both > >>> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC > was offline > >>> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather > awkward > >>> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it > wouldn't be > >>> good for the owners lets put it that way. > >>> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located > equipment > >>> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude > liability under > >>> your maintenance clauses. > >>> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment > in a DC > >>> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that > come with > >>> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid. > >>> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you > should have > >>> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid > does happen > >>> that you can't control you at least still have services online as > the load > >>> balanced services would just switch. > >>> Regards Chad. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Chad Kelly > >>> Manager > >>> CPK Web Services > >>> Phone 03 5273 0246 > >>> Web www.cpkws.com.au > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> AusNOG mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > >> > >> -- > >> Chad Kelly > >> Manager > >> CPK Web Services > >> Phone 03 5273 0246 > >> Web www.cpkws.com.au > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> AusNOG mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > -- > Chad Kelly > Manager > CPK Web Services > Phone 03 5273 0246 > Web www.cpkws.com.au > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:26:45 +1000 > From: James Hodgkinson <[email protected]> > To: Sam Silvester <[email protected]>, Jared Hirst > <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - > 15th August > Message-ID: > <1502353605.3647578.1068981528.3F4D0403@webmail. > messagingengine.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > We have a tech on site tomorrow morning in Brisbane to do live works on > a major DC panel, they need a look out with a torch, insulating matting > and a few other things but it's legal. > James > > > On Thu, 10 Aug 2017, at 16:04, Sam Silvester wrote: > > I also am unaware of such a law. Simon, can you advise? > > > > I'm told in QLD that live works are not permitted, but I am in SA so > I > > have not really bothered too much to check if that is hearsay or > true.> > > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Jared Hirst > > <[email protected]> wrote:>> > >> Hi Simon, > >> > >> Maybe it could be helpful to the Ausnog list to point us to that law > >> you refer too?>> > >> As I personally have never heard or seen this done in any DC in > >> Australia, or the world in the past 15 years I have been housing > gear > >> in Data Centres.>> > >> I agree that gear should have 2N, and it doesn?t affect me, but > there > >> are people that have equipment that have single fed devices, and I > >> believe you don?t allow self installed STS devices to be installed? > I > >> could be wrong.>> > >> In any case, it would be interesting to see the law the requires you > >> to shut down boards.>> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Jared Hirst > >> Servers Australia Pty Ltd > >> Phone: +61 2 8115 8801 > >> Email: [email protected] > >> > >> *From:* AusNOG <[email protected]> on behalf of Simon > >> Cooper <[email protected]> *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:39:13 > AM > >> *To:* [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC > >> Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August>> > >> Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. > >> > >> At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure > >> maintenance that impacts racks or the environment within the data > >> hall to an absolute minimum.>> > >> However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law > >> and one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of > >> each of our major switchboards. This is all about ensuring that the > >> electrical system is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work. > >> Rightly so.>> > >> Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it, > >> and we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the > >> rack. This occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we > >> provide this capability. Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A & > B > >> feeds) will simply see its power swing from one feed to the other. > >> Any rack that is drawing no more that its contracted power level > will > >> have no issue when all devices move from A to B or vice versa.>> > >> Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give > >> customers time to consider the management of these works and we > don't > >> assume that every rack is perfectly deployed: We are here 24/7 to > >> assist customers with rack inspections or specific circuit down > tests > >> or maybe a controlled move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that > >> are single fed).>> > >> Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we > >> understand the timing in relation to their businesses, and we work > >> very hard to coordinate schedules despite each switch board > >> supporting many different customers and customer instances across > the > >> data centre. Occasionally that means we have to make a difficult > >> decisions which may result in schedule changes. When that does > >> happen, we do not compromise our notification periods.>> > >> I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best > >> offline or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our > >> absolute best to keep your data centre operating safely and reliably > >> for many years to come.>> > >> Thanks, > >> Simon > >> COO, NEXTDC > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> *From:* [email protected] > >>> *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000 > >>> *To:* [email protected] > >>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > >>> Maintenance - 15th August>>> > >>> This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A > and > >>> B feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall > 2 > >>> and A on Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but > >>> not entirely unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad > >>> in both, staff get stretched thin remediating issues).>>> > >>> A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment, > >>> allowing one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other. > >>> Anything mission critical should be able to draw from either feed > as > >>> required (dual PSU), and if there is a power deficit on one feed > >>> (causing circuits to trip), that would imply the circuits are > >>> incorrectly sized?>>> > >>> In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply > >>> would be on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent > devices > >>> installed with one on each rail?>>> > >>> Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes, > >>> better than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying > you > >>> is better than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better > >>> than unscheduled :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a > >>> close eye on things)>>> > >>> Nathan. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane > >>> <[email protected]> wrote:>>> > >>>> Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls > >>>> we occupy.____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> DataHall 2____ > > > >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC > +10. > >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC > >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> DataHall 3____ > > > >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC > +10 > >>>> B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC > >>>> +10____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> DataHall 4____ > > > >>>> > >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC > >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> > >>>> __? __So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on > the > >>>> same day. ____>>>> __? __Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A > rail on the 8th of > >>>> August but has been re-scheduled with no new date of > works.____>>>> __? __Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the > ____ > > > >>>> __ __ > > > >>>> Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for > >>>> Data Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification ____>>>> > Just now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for > >>>> Data Hall 2 and 3.____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even > >>>> started.____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> Regards____ > > > >>>> Shaun____ > > > >>>> __ __ > > > >>>> __ __ > > > >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf > >>>> Of *Murat Sener *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM *To:* > >>>> Matthew VK3EVL <[email protected]>; [email protected]>>>> > >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > >>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>> > > > >>>> __ __ > > > >>>> We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as > >>>> per original schedule and Feed A is yet to be > rescheduled.____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> __ __ > > > >>>> __ __ > > > >>>> ____ > > > >>>> *Murat Sener* Datacentre Manager____ > > > >>>> *PREMIER* Technology Solutions *P. *1300 76 76 48 *F. *1300 76 > >>>> 76 49 *M. *0450 604 350 ____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> *How am I doing? Let us know!* SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE > >>>> FEEDBACK ____>>>> *GREAT____* > > > >>>> *AVERAGE____* > > > >>>> *BAD____* > > > >>>> ____ > > > >>>> ____ > > > >>>> ____ > > > >>>> __ __ > > > >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf > >>>> Of *Matthew VK3EVL *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM *To:* > >>>> [email protected] *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne > - > >>>> Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same > >>>> time?____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:____ > > > >>>>> HI Damien,____ > > > >>>>> ____ > > > >>>>> My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about > the > >>>>> works being completed during business hours?____>>>>> What about > increased loading of the active rail once one of them > >>>>> is switched off for these works?____>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>> Regards____ > > > >>>>> Shaun____ > > > >>>>> ____ > > > >>>>> ____ > > > >>>>> *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:[email protected]] *Sent:* > >>>>> Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM *To:* <[email protected]> > >>>>> <[email protected]>; Shaun McGuane <[email protected]> > >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power > >>>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>> It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST)____ > > > >>>>> ____ > > > >>>>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane > >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:____>>>>>> HI Noggers,____ > > > >>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>>> Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification > happening > >>>>>> next week?____>>>>>> They maybe upgrading feeds or boards > throughout the datacentre ? > >>>>>> has everyone seen this notification of works?____>>>>>> It > appears to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for > >>>>>> all Datahalls on the same date.____>>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>>> *WHAT:* > >>>>>> NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of > >>>>>> specialist contractors, will conduct offline preventative > >>>>>> electrical maintenance work on high-voltage and low-voltage main > >>>>>> isolators. This will affect A and B feeds to the racks in Data > >>>>>> Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> *WHEN:* A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until > >>>>>> 16:00 UTC +10. B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 > >>>>>> until 16:00 UTC +10.>>>>>> > >>>>>> *HOW AM I AFFECTED?* Due to the nature of the work a single feed > >>>>>> will be removed as per the dates and times above. We recommend > >>>>>> that customers balance the power between both power rails to > >>>>>> minimise impact during this period. If you have single feed > >>>>>> devices we recommend you:____>>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>>> Regards____ > > > >>>>>> Shaun____ > > > >>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>>> ____ > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> AusNOG mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____ > > > >>>>> -- ____ > > > >>>>> Damien Gardner Jnr > >>>>> VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust > >>>>> [email protected] - http://www.rendrag.net/_ > _-- > >>>>> We rode on the winds of the rising storm, > >>>>> We ran to the sounds of thunder. > >>>>> We danced among the lightning bolts, > >>>>> and tore the world asunder____ > > > >>>>> > >>>>> ____ > > > >>>>> ___________________________________________________ > >>>>> AusNOG mailing list____ [email protected]____ > >>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____>>>> __ __ > > > >>>> > >>>> MESSAGE PROTECTED BY *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS*[1] - POWERED > >>>> BY *MAILGUARD*[2]. Report this message as spam[3] > >>>> ____>>>> > >>>> MESSAGE PROTECTED BY *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS*[4] - POWERED > >>>> BY *MAILGUARD*[5]. > >>>> ____>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> AusNOG mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > >>>> > > _________________________________________________ > > AusNOG mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > Links: > > 1. http://www.premiertech.com.au > 2. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg > 3. https://console.mailguard.com.au/ras/1RqQHQIE5J/ > 6DWUZjiMDnlts7JYyCLNB3/0 > 4. http://www.premiertech.com.au > 5. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/7eff6cb5/attachment.html> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image001.png > Type: image/png > Size: 3738 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/7eff6cb5/attachment.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image002.png > Type: image/png > Size: 3778 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/7eff6cb5/attachment-0001.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image003.png > Type: image/png > Size: 4714 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/7eff6cb5/attachment-0002.png> > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: image004.png > Type: image/png > Size: 3771 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: <http://lists.ausnog.net/pipermail/ausnog/attachments/ > 20170810/7eff6cb5/attachment-0003.png> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > AusNOG mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > ------------------------------ > > End of AusNOG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 14 > ************************************** > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AusNOG mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >
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