Hi John,

There's nothing about an ATS that makes it generally 'large' or small
relative to an STS.

Here's a 1RU, 10A ATS:
http://www.apc.com/shop/au/en/products/RACK-ATS-10A-230V-12A-208V-C14-IN-12-C13-OUT/P-AP7721

I've got many dozen of these deployed in racks right by single corded
equipment right now, and I often recommend them to customers who need to
put single corded equipment on both the A and B feed to their rack.

Meanwhile, to pick an example at one of our data centres, we have use a
1500A three phase ATS on the inputs to our UPS.

Cheers,

Sam


On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 3:54 AM, John Duffin <jduf...@uptimeinstitute.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Please do not take this as expert Electrical Engineering advice!
>
> A quick word on ATS/STS.
>
> ATS are essentially automated mechanical switches.  They can “Make Before
> Break” or they can “Break Before Make” depending on their design and
> whichever arrangement is used is dictated by the Electrical Design as
> determined by the Electrical Engineer.  Case and Situation Specific, I
> would warn against generalising.  STS are Solid State devices which have no
> moving parts.  There are reasons why you would use either and it is best
> not to think of them as interchangeable.
>
> ATS will normally live in a DC deep in the Electrical Distribution, if you
> don’t go to the Power Rooms, you many never see one.  STS tends to have
> smaller current carrying capacity and live nearer the IT.  For the case of
> Single Cord Equipment in a Dual Cord DC then, if it’s odd items in a rack,
> Rack Mount STS are usable.  If there’s lots of odd Single Cord Equipment
> within a DC then a 3rd Supply can be considered but then you have to wonder
> why the customer is paying for Dual Cord in the first place…
>
> The point of a real Dual Cord Environment is that Operators like NextDC,
> can do routine maintenance work and still maintain at least one supply to
> the IT load.  You need to consider single cord equipment in that context
> and, under the SLA, It is probably going be your problem to keep it
> powered, not theirs…
>
> John
>
> On 10/8/17, 4:26 PM, "AusNOG on behalf of ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net"
> <ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net on behalf of ausnog-request@lists.ausnog.
> net> wrote:
>
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>     Today's Topics:
>
>        1. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th
>           August (Sam Silvester)
>        2. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th
>           August (Peter Tiggerdine)
>        3. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -, 15th
>           August (Chad Kelly)
>        4. Re: NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th
>           August (James Hodgkinson)
>
>
>     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     Message: 1
>     Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 15:38:14 +0930
>     From: Sam Silvester <sam.silves...@gmail.com>
>     To: James Braunegg <james.braun...@micron21.com>
>     Cc: "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>
>     Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
>         15th    August
>     Message-ID:
>         <CAAAhk6-CMRyG2xY0Q7i0-dZ-=pOcC_PspDmLeGEs23jpP_R9bg@mail.
> gmail.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>     Hi James,
>
>     A quick Google tells me APC ATS are break before make, so that is
> certainly
>     not the defining feature of an ATS vs. STS.
>
>     For cost effective provision of a 'C feed' in racks to catch those
> pesky
>     single corded devices you just can't live without I see no reason at
> all to
>     go to the expense of typically larger and more expensive STS, happy to
>     learn more though.
>
>     Sam
>
>
>
>     On Thursday, 10 August 2017, James Braunegg <
> james.braun...@micron21.com>
>     wrote:
>
>     > Dear All
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Anyone with single power supply devices please do not look at
> getting an
>     > ATS, get a STS !!!
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *Short version*
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > ATS (Automatic Transfer Switch) will typically break power before it
>     > makes, thus the connected device could reboot !!
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > STS (Static Transfer Switch) will make power before it breaks,
> providing
>     > no break to the power  !
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > An example of a recommended device is below
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > https://www.vertivco.com/en-asia/products-catalog/
>     > critical-power/power-transfer-switches/liebert-lts-63-to-400a/
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Kindest Regards,
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *James Braunegg*
>     >
>     > [image: cid:image001.png@01D280A4.01865B60]
>     >
>     > 1300 769 972 / 0488 997 207 <1300%20769%20972>
>     >
>     > *ja...@micron21.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ja...@micron21.com
> ');>*
>     >
>     > www.micron21.com/
>     >
>     > [image: cid:image002.png@01D280A4.01865B60] <
> http://www.micron21.com/>
>     >
>     > [image: cid:image003.png@01D280A4.01865B60]
>     > <https://www.facebook.com/micron21/>
>     >
>     > [image: cid:image004.png@01D280A4.01865B60] <
> https://twitter.com/micron21>
>     >
>     > Follow us on Twitter <https://twitter.com/micron21> for important
> service
>     > and system updates.
>     >
>     > This message is intended for the addressee named above. It may
> contain
>     > privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended
>     > recipient of this message you must not use, copy, distribute or
> disclose it
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>     > error please return the message to the sender by replying to it and
> then
>     > delete the message from your computer.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net
>     > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net');>]
> *On
>     > Behalf Of *Matthew Smee
>     > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 12:00 PM
>     > *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
>     > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');>
>     > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
>     > 15th August
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > +1
>     >
>     > Every DC agreement I?ve seen (3) have mentioned that you are
> responsible
>     > for supplying it with power and they aren?t responsible if it loses
> power
>     > (i.e. use an ATS).
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net
>     > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net');>]
> *On
>     > Behalf Of *Sam Silvester
>     > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 10:14 AM
>     > *To:* Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com
>     > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sh...@rackcentral.com');>>
>     > *Cc:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
>     > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ausnog@lists.ausnog.net');>
>     > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
>     > 15th August
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > If you have single fed equipment in your rack that needs planning
> before
>     > it can be shut down, do you not run a totally forseeable and
> preventable
>     > risk then should that one feed trip?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > This is what ATS are for.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Sam
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com
>     > <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sh...@rackcentral.com');>> wrote:
>     >
>     > HI Simon,
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Thank you for your input to the list.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > While you may have provided notifications well in advance, your
> schedule
>     > provided has been changed multiple times and this creates confusion.
>     >
>     > Without asking for further clarification last night I would never
> have
>     > received the following updated schedule from Craig Armstrong today.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Data Hall 2 ? B feed (west/blue PDU side) Tuesday 15th Aug, A feed
> has
>     > been pushed back to later date around November, you will receive
> official
>     > notice once new date confirmed.
>     >
>     > Data Hall 3 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around
>     > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date
> confirmed.
>     >
>     > Data Hall 4 ?A and B feed has been pushed back to later date around
>     > October/November, you will receive official notice once new date
> confirmed.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works are
> being
>     > postponed for the time being
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is
> involved with
>     > these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
> information
>     > about any pending outages or upgrades
>     > to the NextDC DataCentres which affect services.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Additionally, I have not received these updates via the normal NextDC
>     > E-Mail communication method, so I am sure other customers will be
> wondering
>     > whats happening too.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Happy to have a conversation offline about this feel free to give me
> a
>     > call on my mobile.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > Shaun
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
> Of *Simon
>     > Cooper
>     > *Sent:* Thursday, 10 August 2017 8:39 AM
>     > *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
>     > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
>     > 15th August
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure
> maintenance
>     > that impacts racks or the environment within the data hall to an
> absolute
>     > minimum.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law
> and
>     > one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of each
> of our
>     > major switchboards.  This is all about ensuring that the electrical
> system
>     > is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work. Rightly so.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it,
> and
>     > we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the
> rack.  This
>     > occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we provide this
>     > capability.  Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A & B feeds) will
> simply
>     > see its power swing from one feed to the other.  Any rack that is
> drawing
>     > no more that its contracted power level will have no issue when all
> devices
>     > move from A to B or vice versa.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give
> customers
>     > time to consider the management of these works and we don't assume
> that
>     > every rack is perfectly deployed:  We are here 24/7 to assist
> customers
>     > with rack inspections or specific circuit down tests or maybe a
> controlled
>     > move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that are single fed).
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we
> understand the
>     > timing in relation to their businesses, and we work very hard to
> coordinate
>     > schedules despite each switch board supporting many different
> customers and
>     > customer instances across the data centre.  Occasionally that means
> we have
>     > to make a difficult decisions which may result in schedule changes.
> When
>     > that does happen, we do not compromise our notification periods.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best
> offline
>     > or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our absolute
> best to
>     > keep your data centre operating safely and reliably for many years
> to come.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Thanks,
>     >
>     > Simon
>     >
>     > COO, NEXTDC
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > *From:* nat...@nightsys.net
>     > *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000
>     > *To:* sh...@rackcentral.com
>     > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
>     > 15th August
>     >
>     > This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A and
> B
>     > feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall 2
> and A on
>     > Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but not
> entirely
>     > unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad in both,
> staff get
>     > stretched thin remediating issues).
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment,
> allowing
>     > one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other. Anything
> mission
>     > critical should be able to draw from either feed as required (dual
> PSU),
>     > and if there is a power deficit on one feed (causing circuits to
> trip),
>     > that would imply the circuits are incorrectly sized?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply
> would be
>     > on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent devices
> installed with
>     > one on each rail?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes,
> better
>     > than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying you is
> better
>     > than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better than
> unscheduled
>     > :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a close eye on
> things)
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Nathan.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com
> >
>     > wrote:
>     >
>     > Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls we
>     > occupy.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > DataHall 2
>     >
>     > A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
>     > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > DataHall 3
>     >
>     > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10
>     > B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > DataHall 4
>     >
>     > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > ?         So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on the same
> day.
>     >
>     > ?         Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A rail on the 8th of August
> but
>     > has been re-scheduled with no new date of works.
>     >
>     > ?         Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for
> Data
>     > Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification
>     >
>     > Just now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for
> Data Hall
>     > 2 and 3.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even started.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > Shaun
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
> Of *Murat
>     > Sener
>     > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM
>     > *To:* Matthew VK3EVL <hit...@itglowz.com>; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
>     >
>     >
>     > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
>     > 15th August
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as per
>     > original schedule and Feed A is yet to be rescheduled.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *Murat Sener*     Datacentre Manager
>     >
>     > *PREMIER* Technology Solutions
>     > *P. *1300 76 76 48    *F. *1300 76 76 49    *M. *0450 604 350
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *How am I doing? Let us know!*
>     > SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE FEEDBACK
>     >
>     > *GREAT*
>     >
>     > *AVERAGE*
>     >
>     > *BAD*
>     >
>     > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/ZXg4BxUQRobS3?domain=crewhu.com>
>     >
>     > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/m4kKB9UQ4mAS1?domain=crewhu.com>
>     >
>     > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/krZGBXug3DJiw?domain=crewhu.com>
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf
> Of *Matthew
>     > VK3EVL
>     > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM
>     > *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
>     > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
>     > 15th August
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same time?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:
>     >
>     > HI Damien,
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about the
> works
>     > being completed during business hours?
>     >
>     > What about increased loading of the active rail once one of them is
>     > switched off for these works?
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > Shaun
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rend...@rendrag.net]
>     > *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM
>     > *To:* <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net> <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>; Shaun
> McGuane
>     > <sh...@rackcentral.com>
>     > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -
>     > 15th August
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST)
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com>
>     > wrote:
>     >
>     > HI Noggers,
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification happening
> next
>     > week?
>     >
>     > They maybe upgrading feeds or boards throughout the datacentre ? has
>     > everyone seen this notification of works?
>     >
>     > It appears to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for all
>     > Datahalls on the same date.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > *WHAT:*
>     > NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of specialist
>     > contractors, will conduct offline preventative electrical
> maintenance work
>     > on high-voltage and low-voltage main isolators. This will affect A
> and B
>     > feeds to the racks in Data Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August.
>     >
>     > *WHEN:*
>     > A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
>     > B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC +10.
>     >
>     > *HOW AM I AFFECTED?*
>     > Due to the nature of the work a single feed will be removed as per
> the
>     > dates and times above. We recommend that customers balance the power
>     > between both power rails to minimise impact during this period. If
> you have
>     > single feed devices we recommend you:
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards
>     >
>     > Shaun
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > AusNOG mailing list
>     > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>     > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/pLG0B1fQrxkS1?domain=
> lists.ausnog.net>
>     >
>     > --
>     >
>     > Damien Gardner Jnr
>     > VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
>     > rend...@rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/
>     > <https://protect-au.mimecast.com/s/Ld1wBKUl1AwIG?domain=rendrag.net>
>     > --
>     > We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
>     >  We ran to the sounds of thunder.
>     > We danced among the lightning bolts,
>     >  and tore the world asunder
>     >
>     >
>     >
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>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 2
>     Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:11:48 +1000
>     From: Peter Tiggerdine <ptiggerd...@gmail.com>
>     To: Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au>
>     Cc: "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>,
>         "ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net
> >
>     Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance
>         -,      15th August
>     Message-ID:
>         <CAHgLLqb789cBEYY50QyFjGc1Zr4sWbc3nXkG_AVnsg6uCO_1SA@mail.
> gmail.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>     disagree.
>
>     Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to
>     assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU
>     fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get
>     same day resolution.
>
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Peter Tiggerdine
>
>     GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127
>
>
>     On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au> wrote:
>     >
>     > Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does
> appear to be
>     > an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be better
> off
>     > doing this out of business hours I would of thought.
>     > Regards Chad.
>     >
>     >
>     > On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
>     >>
>     >> Chad,
>     >>
>     >> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for
>     >> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service.
> There is a
>     >> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking extra
> load
>     >> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with PDU's.
>     >>
>     >> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be
> ignored
>     >> especially during those times.
>     >>
>     >> Kindest Regards,
>     >> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
>     >>
>     >> -----Original Message-----
>     >> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of
> Chad
>     >> Kelly
>     >> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM
>     >> To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net; ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net
>     >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -,
>     >> 15th August
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net wrote:
>     >>>
>     >>>   From the latest update today, It appears that most of the works
> are
>     >>> being postponed for the time being
>     >>>
>     >>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is
> involved
>     >>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
>     >>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC
> DataCentres
>     >>> which affect services.
>     >>
>     >> If these services are mission critical then you really should have
> duel
>     >> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment
>     >> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just
> disconnect both
>     >> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC was
> offline
>     >> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather awkward
>     >> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it
> wouldn't be
>     >> good for the owners lets put it that way.
>     >> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located
> equipment
>     >> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude
> liability under
>     >> your maintenance clauses.
>     >> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment
> in a DC
>     >> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that
> come with
>     >> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid.
>     >> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you should
> have
>     >> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid
> does happen
>     >> that you can't control you at least still have services online as
> the load
>     >> balanced services would just switch.
>     >> Regards Chad.
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> Chad Kelly
>     >> Manager
>     >> CPK Web Services
>     >> Phone 03 5273 0246
>     >> Web www.cpkws.com.au
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> AusNOG mailing list
>     >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>     >
>     >
>     > --
>     > Chad Kelly
>     > Manager
>     > CPK Web Services
>     > Phone 03 5273 0246
>     > Web www.cpkws.com.au
>     >
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > AusNOG mailing list
>     > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 3
>     Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:41:08 +1000
>     From: Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au>
>     To: Peter Tiggerdine <ptiggerd...@gmail.com>
>     Cc: "ausnog@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>,
>         "ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net" <ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net
> >
>     Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance
>         -, 15th August
>     Message-ID: <945c1e17-7406-e4d3-3340-bee89f4d5...@cpkws.com.au>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>     Yeah bit of a dammed if you do, dammed if you don't type situation.
>
>
>
>     On 8/10/2017 4:11 PM, Peter Tiggerdine wrote:
>     > disagree.
>     >
>     > Outside of business hours costs more with limited staff around to
>     > assist. They're doing you a favour by doing this because if your PSU
>     > fails on server, you'll have time raise tickets with vendor and get
>     > same day resolution.
>     >
>     >
>     > Regards,
>     >
>     > Peter Tiggerdine
>     >
>     > GPG Fingerprint: 2A3F EA19 F6C2 93C1 411D 5AB2 D5A8 E8A8 0E74 6127
>     >
>     >
>     > On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Chad Kelly <c...@cpkws.com.au>
> wrote:
>     >> Hmm yes actually deciding to do this during business hours does
> appear to be
>     >> an odd choice, even with two PSU in the server, they would be
> better off
>     >> doing this out of business hours I would of thought.
>     >> Regards Chad.
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> On 8/10/2017 2:56 PM, Nathan Brookfield wrote:
>     >>> Chad,
>     >>>
>     >>> That's all well and good but when you're paying a premium price for
>     >>> services of this fashion you expect a certain level of service.
> There is a
>     >>> risk no matter what when switching from power supplies taking
> extra load
>     >>> they would not usually take as well as swing load issues with
> PDU's.
>     >>>
>     >>> I completely agree with your sentiment but the risk is not to be
> ignored
>     >>> especially during those times.
>     >>>
>     >>> Kindest Regards,
>     >>> Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB)
>     >>>
>     >>> -----Original Message-----
>     >>> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf
> Of Chad
>     >>> Kelly
>     >>> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:54 PM
>     >>> To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net; ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net
>     >>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
> Maintenance -,
>     >>> 15th August
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> On 8/10/2017 10:13 AM, ausnog-requ...@lists.ausnog.net wrote:
>     >>>>    From the latest update today, It appears that most of the
> works are
>     >>>> being postponed for the time being
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Not all devices within racks support 2 feeds and planning is
> involved
>     >>>> with these devices, which is why it is crucial to receive accurate
>     >>>> information about any pending outages or upgrades to the NextDC
> DataCentres
>     >>>> which affect services.
>     >>> If these services are mission critical then you really should have
> duel
>     >>> PSU units, so that when one feed gets taken offline the equipment
>     >>> automatically switches to the other feed. They won't just
> disconnect both
>     >>> feeds at once because that would be stupid and if the entire DC
> was offline
>     >>> for too much time then that would put the owners in a rather
> awkward
>     >>> situation legally, as after say 8 or 10 hours of downtime it
> wouldn't be
>     >>> good for the owners lets put it that way.
>     >>> If the single PSU units are a part of a customers co-located
> equipment
>     >>> then really your terms of service agreement should exclude
> liability under
>     >>> your maintenance clauses.
>     >>> I don't understand why anyone would be using single PSU equipment
> in a DC
>     >>> environment now a days when you can buy refurbished servers that
> come with
>     >>> two PSU as standard even when you buy them without raid.
>     >>> Also for anything that is really really mission critical you
> should have
>     >>> it hosted in multiple datacentres anyway so if something stupid
> does happen
>     >>> that you can't control you at least still have services online as
> the load
>     >>> balanced services would just switch.
>     >>> Regards Chad.
>     >>>
>     >>> --
>     >>> Chad Kelly
>     >>> Manager
>     >>> CPK Web Services
>     >>> Phone 03 5273 0246
>     >>> Web www.cpkws.com.au
>     >>>
>     >>> _______________________________________________
>     >>> AusNOG mailing list
>     >>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     >>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>     >>
>     >> --
>     >> Chad Kelly
>     >> Manager
>     >> CPK Web Services
>     >> Phone 03 5273 0246
>     >> Web www.cpkws.com.au
>     >>
>     >> _______________________________________________
>     >> AusNOG mailing list
>     >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>     --
>     Chad Kelly
>     Manager
>     CPK Web Services
>     Phone 03 5273 0246
>     Web www.cpkws.com.au
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     Message: 4
>     Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:26:45 +1000
>     From: James Hodgkinson <yale...@ricetek.net>
>     To: Sam Silvester <sam.silves...@gmail.com>, Jared Hirst
>         <jared.hi...@serversaustralia.com.au>
>     Cc: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net
>     Subject: Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance -
>         15th August
>     Message-ID:
>         <1502353605.3647578.1068981528.3F4D0403@webmail.
> messagingengine.com>
>     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>     We have a tech on site tomorrow morning in Brisbane to do live works on
>     a major DC panel, they need a look out with a torch, insulating matting
>     and a few other things but it's legal.
>     James
>
>
>     On Thu, 10 Aug 2017, at 16:04, Sam Silvester wrote:
>     > I also am unaware of such a law. Simon, can you advise?
>     >
>     > I'm told in QLD that live works are not permitted, but I am in SA so
> I
>     > have not really bothered too much to check if that is hearsay or
> true.>
>     > On Thursday, 10 August 2017, Jared Hirst
>     > <jared.hi...@serversaustralia.com.au> wrote:>>
>     >> Hi Simon,
>     >>
>     >> Maybe it could be helpful to the Ausnog list to point us to that law
>     >> you refer too?>>
>     >> As I personally have never heard or seen this done in any DC in
>     >> Australia, or the world in the past 15 years I have been housing
> gear
>     >> in Data Centres.>>
>     >> I agree that gear should have 2N, and it doesn?t affect me, but
> there
>     >> are people that have equipment that have single fed devices, and I
>     >> believe you don?t allow self installed STS devices to be installed?
> I
>     >> could be wrong.>>
>     >> In any case, it would be interesting to see the law the requires you
>     >> to shut down boards.>>
>     >> Regards,
>     >>
>     >>  Jared Hirst
>     >>  Servers Australia Pty Ltd
>     >>  Phone: +61 2 8115 8801
>     >>  Email: jared.hi...@serversaustralia.com.au
>     >>
>     >> *From:* AusNOG <ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net> on behalf of Simon
>     >> Cooper <s...@inbox.com> *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:39:13
> AM
>     >> *To:* ausnog@lists.ausnog.net *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC
>     >> Melbourne - Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August>>
>     >> Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.
>     >>
>     >> At NEXTDC we work very hard to keep critical infrastructure
>     >> maintenance that impacts racks or the environment within the data
>     >> hall to an absolute minimum.>>
>     >> However, some works are required to happen from time to time by law
>     >> and one of those activities is a de-energisation and inspection of
>     >> each of our major switchboards.  This is all about ensuring that the
>     >> electrical system is safe, and is an unavoidable piece of work.
>     >> Rightly so.>>
>     >> Every rack in a NEXTDC data centre has 2N power feeds offered to it,
>     >> and we highly recommend that they are used for every device in the
>     >> rack.  This occasional maintenance is one of the many reasons we
>     >> provide this capability.  Any device using the 2N supplies (aka A &
> B
>     >> feeds) will simply see its power swing from one feed to the other.
>     >> Any rack that is drawing no more that its contracted power level
> will
>     >> have no issue when all devices move from A to B or vice versa.>>
>     >> Our notifications were made well in advance, as we want to give
>     >> customers time to consider the management of these works and we
> don't
>     >> assume that every rack is perfectly deployed:  We are here 24/7 to
>     >> assist customers with rack inspections or specific circuit down
> tests
>     >> or maybe a controlled move prior to the day (e.g. for devices that
>     >> are single fed).>>
>     >> Also, as we work though those discussions with customers we
>     >> understand the timing in relation to their businesses, and we work
>     >> very hard to coordinate schedules despite each switch board
>     >> supporting many different customers and customer instances across
> the
>     >> data centre.  Occasionally that means we have to make a difficult
>     >> decisions which may result in schedule changes.  When that does
>     >> happen, we do not compromise our notification periods.>>
>     >> I'll be happy to discuss these works with anyone - probably best
>     >> offline or on the phone - but trust me when I say we are doing our
>     >> absolute best to keep your data centre operating safely and reliably
>     >> for many years to come.>>
>     >> Thanks,
>     >> Simon
>     >> COO, NEXTDC
>     >>
>     >>> -----Original Message-----
>     >>> *From:* nat...@nightsys.net
>     >>> *Sent:* Thu, 10 Aug 2017 05:39:02 +1000
>     >>> *To:* sh...@rackcentral.com
>     >>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
>     >>> Maintenance - 15th August>>>
>     >>> This seems reasonable? As long as no single Data Hall has both A
> and
>     >>> B feeds removed simultaneously, that seems normal. Doing B on Hall
> 2
>     >>> and A on Hall 3 on the same day does seem slightly adventurous, but
>     >>> not entirely unreasonable (mostly in terms of if something goes bad
>     >>> in both, staff get stretched thin remediating issues).>>>
>     >>> A and B feeds are designed to provide redundancy to equipment,
>     >>> allowing one feed to fail and systems to continue on the other.
>     >>> Anything mission critical should be able to draw from either feed
> as
>     >>> required (dual PSU), and if there is a power deficit on one feed
>     >>> (causing circuits to trip), that would imply the circuits are
>     >>> incorrectly sized?>>>
>     >>> In addition, anything mission critical with a single power supply
>     >>> would be on an ATS you would assume, or a pair of equivalent
> devices
>     >>> installed with one on each rail?>>>
>     >>> Things break in datacentres, planned maintenance happens sometimes,
>     >>> better than no maintenance at all :) The fact they are notifying
> you
>     >>> is better than not, and it being scheduled is probably still better
>     >>> than unscheduled :) (easier to ensure sufficient staffing to keep a
>     >>> close eye on things)>>>
>     >>> Nathan.
>     >>>
>     >>> On Wed, Aug 9, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Shaun McGuane
>     >>> <sh...@rackcentral.com> wrote:>>>
>     >>>> Here is the entire scheduled maintenance windows for all the halls
>     >>>> we occupy.____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> DataHall 2____
>
>
>     >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 8th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
> +10.
>     >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
>     >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> DataHall 3____
>
>
>     >>>> A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
> +10
>     >>>> B Feed - Monday 14th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
>     >>>> +10____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> DataHall 4____
>
>
>     >>>>
>     >>>> B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until 16:00 UTC
>     >>>> +10.____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>>
>     >>>> __?         __So looks like no power on 3 data halls B feeds on
> the
>     >>>> same day. ____>>>> __?         __Data Hall 2 was scheduled for A
> rail on the 8th of
>     >>>> August but has been re-scheduled with no new date of
> works.____>>>> __?         __Data Hall 3 was scheduled for A rail on the
> ____
>
>
>     >>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> Problem is that I have 3x separate dates on 3 separate e-mails for
>     >>>> Data Hall 3 and I have requested a revised clarification ____>>>>
> Just now on the above as there has already been re-schedules for
>     >>>> Data Hall 2 and 3.____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> This feels like it?s going sideways and it has not even
>     >>>> started.____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> Regards____
>
>
>     >>>> Shaun____
>
>
>     >>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On
> Behalf
>     >>>> Of *Murat Sener *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:20 PM *To:*
>     >>>> Matthew VK3EVL <hit...@itglowz.com>; ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>>>>
>     >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
>     >>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>>
>
>
>     >>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> We have been told only Feed B in Data hall 2 will be effected as
>     >>>> per original schedule and Feed A is yet to be
> rescheduled.____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>> *Murat Sener*     Datacentre Manager____
>
>
>     >>>> *PREMIER* Technology Solutions *P. *1300 76 76 48    *F. *1300 76
>     >>>> 76 49    *M. *0450 604 350 ____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> *How am I doing? Let us know!* SIMPLY CLICK ON A FACE TO GIVE
>     >>>> FEEDBACK ____>>>> *GREAT____*
>
>
>     >>>> *AVERAGE____*
>
>
>     >>>> *BAD____*
>
>
>     >>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On
> Behalf
>     >>>> Of *Matthew VK3EVL *Sent:* Wednesday, 9 August 2017 3:13 PM *To:*
>     >>>> ausnog@lists.ausnog.net *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne
> -
>     >>>> Scheduled Power Maintenance - 15th August____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> What about both feeds happening on the same day at the same
>     >>>> time?____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>> On 9/08/2017 2:55 PM, Shaun McGuane wrote:____
>
>
>     >>>>> HI Damien,____
>
>
>     >>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>> My apologies that?s correct ? but isn?t anyone concerned about
> the
>     >>>>> works being completed during business hours?____>>>>> What about
> increased loading of the active rail once one of them
>     >>>>> is switched off for these works?____>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>> Regards____
>
>
>     >>>>> Shaun____
>
>
>     >>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>> *From:* Damien Gardner Jnr [mailto:rend...@rendrag.net] *Sent:*
>     >>>>> Wednesday, 9 August 2017 2:39 PM *To:* <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>
>     >>>>> <ausnog@lists.ausnog.net>; Shaun McGuane <sh...@rackcentral.com>
>     >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] NextDC Melbourne - Scheduled Power
>     >>>>> Maintenance - 15th August____>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>> It says 7am -> 4pm in what you quoted? (UTC+10 is AEST)____
>
>
>     >>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2017 at 2:36 pm, Shaun McGuane
>     >>>>> <sh...@rackcentral.com> wrote:____>>>>>> HI Noggers,____
>
>
>     >>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>> Has anyone seen this scheduled maintenance notification
> happening
>     >>>>>> next week?____>>>>>> They maybe upgrading feeds or boards
> throughout the datacentre ?
>     >>>>>> has everyone seen this notification of works?____>>>>>> It
> appears to be happening starting 5PM through to 2AM AEST for
>     >>>>>> all Datahalls on the same date.____>>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>> *WHAT:*
>     >>>>>> NEXTDC M1 Melbourne data centre, with the assistance of
>     >>>>>> specialist contractors, will conduct offline preventative
>     >>>>>> electrical maintenance work on high-voltage and low-voltage main
>     >>>>>> isolators. This will affect A and B feeds to the racks in Data
>     >>>>>> Hall 2/3/4 on the 15th of August.
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> *WHEN:* A Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10 until
>     >>>>>> 16:00 UTC +10. B Feed - Tuesday 15th August 2017 07:00 UTC +10
>     >>>>>> until 16:00 UTC +10.>>>>>>
>     >>>>>> *HOW AM I AFFECTED?* Due to the nature of the work a single feed
>     >>>>>> will be removed as per the dates and times above. We recommend
>     >>>>>> that customers balance the power between both power rails to
>     >>>>>> minimise impact during this period. If you have single feed
>     >>>>>> devices we recommend you:____>>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>> Regards____
>
>
>     >>>>>> Shaun____
>
>
>     >>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>>  ____
>
>
>     >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>     >>>>>>  AusNOG mailing list
>     >>>>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     >>>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____
>
>
>     >>>>> -- ____
>
>
>     >>>>> Damien Gardner Jnr
>     >>>>>  VK2TDG. Dip EE. GradIEAust
>     >>>>> rend...@rendrag.net -  http://www.rendrag.net/_
>     _--
>     >>>>>  We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
>     >>>>>   We ran to the sounds of thunder.
>     >>>>>  We danced among the lightning bolts,
>     >>>>>   and tore the world asunder____
>
>
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> ____
>
>
>     >>>>> ___________________________________________________
>     >>>>> AusNOG mailing list____ AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net____
>     >>>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog____>>>> __ __
>
>
>     >>>>
>     >>>> MESSAGE PROTECTED BY  *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS*[1] - POWERED
>     >>>> BY  *MAILGUARD*[2].  Report this message as spam[3]
>     >>>>   ____>>>>
>     >>>> MESSAGE PROTECTED BY  *PREMIER TECHNOLOGY SOLUTIONS*[4] - POWERED
>     >>>> BY  *MAILGUARD*[5].
>     >>>>   ____>>>>
>     >>>> _______________________________________________
>     >>>>  AusNOG mailing list
>     >>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     >>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>     >>>>
>     > _________________________________________________
>     > AusNOG mailing list
>     > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net
>     > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>
>     Links:
>
>       1. http://www.premiertech.com.au
>       2. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg
>       3. https://console.mailguard.com.au/ras/1RqQHQIE5J/
> 6DWUZjiMDnlts7JYyCLNB3/0
>       4. http://www.premiertech.com.au
>       5. http://www.mailguard.com.au/mg
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>     ------------------------------
>
>     Subject: Digest Footer
>
>     _______________________________________________
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>     http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
>
>
>     ------------------------------
>
>     End of AusNOG Digest, Vol 66, Issue 14
>     **************************************
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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