+1 to this. This thread has well and truly reached the end of it’s useful life, and a number of people have achieved absolutely nothing with their unprofessional bickering and ad-hominem attacks on each other (among other numerous logical fallacies present). Some of the conduct shown within this thread is completely disgraceful.
To the lurkers coming out of the woodwork - let the operators operate, attack each other somewhere else. - Jacob From: AusNOG <[email protected]> On Behalf Of andrew khoo Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 11:13 AM To: [email protected] ([email protected]) <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. can we all please fork these discussions into a separate thread or list? regardless of validity or virtue or other discussions, there ARE a few of us folk that still want to use this list for operational purposes. On October 3, 2018 at 1:09 PM, dusty ([email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ) wrote: “Merit-based selection” False equivalences #metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor menfolk??) “Virtue signalling” Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone? On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread with a particular keen interest. Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender diversity’ was going to get pushed. Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’ If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all selected on their merits. Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist? Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages, inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply to be the token male. We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof. I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned upon. Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… James Troy Senior Systems Administration From: AusNOG <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > On Behalf Of dusty Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM To: Matthew Young <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> List <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board.” People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show you a deluded patriarchal fool. From: AusNOG [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> List <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. "Seems you've never been to a meeting." The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. Kind regards <https://camo.missiveapp.com/009bccf2dcdacdf923855c3f69390919166ebe73/68747470733a2f2f73736c2e677374617469632e636f6d2f75692f76312f69636f6e732f6d61696c2f696d616765732f636c656172646f742e676966> Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all > men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an > unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> attention. >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very >> seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all >> parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to the >> party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. >> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have >> never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and supported. >> We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other >> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable >> for AusNOG events and mailing lists. >> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader >> solution. >> >> >> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board >> ... >> _______________________________________________ >> AusNOG mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > _______________________________________________ > AusNOG mailing list > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog _______________________________________________ AusNOG mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog _______________________________________________ AusNOG mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
_______________________________________________ AusNOG mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
