On Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:13, Berin Loritsch wrote:
> Peter,
>
> LogKit is your baby, and you are very protective of it. However, some of
> your areguments come off as if they are from left field. An example is:
>
> "If however you are not accusing me of stealing ideas but instead of
> violating copyright then that is another thing altogether. I would like to
> see substantiated evidence that this has been the case for I do not
> apreciate slander."
>
> Ceki's comments were not meant as slander. Even I can read that much.
Slander is generally defined as spreading of untrue statements to damage a
persons reputation. "In the process, you have copied from log4j without
contributing back. I do not think this honors you. We innovate, you copy." is
false and Ceki is aware of this. It's intent is to damage reputation. How can
it not be slander?
Perhaps it is just because I am starting to get sick of this kind of
behaviour. Ceki is not the only apache member who believes slander is a
justified means to achieve an end. I used to believe that people were honest
here and it was one of the reasons I was happy to be involved with Apache.
The longer I am here the more petty, childish, dishonest behaviour I see
exhibited - often by leads. One thing I can't stand is dishonesty and I don't
think it is ever acceptable in a forum like this.
> We should not be enemies. Both of you are very protective of your babies.
> This is good. However, if both of these projects are going to exist under
> the same umbrella--Apache--then there needs to be some symbiance between
> them. Honestly, I like Logkit because it is IMO easy to use, and packaged
> with Avalon. LogKit was part of Avalon before Log4J was part of Apache. I
> admit, I have not used Log4J due to the fact LogKit meets my needs. I also
> recognise that there are thousands of developers with the opposite
> view--that they like Log4J because it meets their needs and have no desire
> to switch.
I would have loved to have dropped LogKit ages ago. Less code is generally
the better. If you look back at the archives (I think this list was cced) I
was looking forward for Log4j coming to Apache and being involved in it. With
initial proposal I looked at it and made some comments (lacked dynamic
configuration, serialized early, lacked filters, had some methods that should
have been final, used unsafe type enums, etc). A bit later I think I also
forwarded a release log when Ceki implemented most of these features (there
are still methods that should be final).
However trying to get him to change anything else was impossible. Then I
attempted to encourage to join together and do a "revolution". Both LogKit
and Log4j have errors in them and we could eliminate them - he refused. Then
I tried to get him to at least to agree on common backend (ie Appenders,
Events etc) - he never replied. The only reason that LogKit remains is
because Log4j is unsuitable for our use - and Ceki was not interested in
cooperating to fix it.
> What I would like to see in the near future is a Logger interface that both
> projects can aggree to so that people who develop in Avalon can use their
> logger of choice. If JDK 1.4 supplies such an interface it might be worth
> investigating.
Never happen - not technically viable.
Cheers,
Pete
*-----------------------------------------------------*
| "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind, |
| and proving that there is no need to do so - almost |
| everyone gets busy on the proof." |
| - John Kenneth Galbraith |
*-----------------------------------------------------*
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