Joshua, I have no real complaint with anything you said, except that you seem to be answering a different concern. The future of the web is competitive, not predictable by what currently exists.
Opening up the options to make Away3D a pure C++ engine is an interesting idea, as you have said. This is not to suggest that anyone do that, or adapt it to Silverlight, HTML5, etc. It is a note of caution, though. I liked (and owned) the Amiga, but when windows95 came on the scene - which was a copy of Amiga OS - MS had a HUGE marketshare which Amiga did not. Size matters, and it may not be easy to see the tipping point. If Apple works to replace Flash, disallowing Flash from it's browsers, then what difference does it make if Flash has the market now? My thoughts were just a perspective for developing Away3D, and letting these developer's talents not disappear if there is some huge shift in the market, or in Adobe. Remember that the start of my initial posting was about the future of Adobe code, which stemmed from the idea of adopting Flash matrices and vectors, and not simply talking about allowing for other programming languages. Anyway, my comments were just food for thought. Horrible, yummy food. later, N. On Feb 5, 10:25 am, "Joshua Granick" <[email protected]> wrote: > There's something to be said about Flash: > > - 99% adoption rate > - Single runtime > - Lightweight development tools > - Flexible architecture > - Powerful code language > - Media support > > We know that Flash's high adoption rate is a big strong point, but there are > many reasons why I still develop for Flash. > > A single runtime removes the headache of producing a working product that > works half of the time. In almost every case, if it works on my machine, it > works on yours. > > FlashDevelop is, in my opinion, one of the best code environments for any > language, ever. If you prefer, there are also many other lightweight or > simple ways to get a SWF compiled. > > Flash's architecture is so flexible. What you see is what you get. There's > something to be said about designing your own architecture, however you like > it, and being able to literally copy and paste from After Effects, > Illustrator, Photoshop and other apps and get to tweening or coding in a few > minutes. > > Actionscript 3 is very powerful, and a joy to work with. > > Flash supports all kinds of media. Not every format, but everything you need > for a game or immersive web experience. > > HTML/CSS/Javascript runs differently on each browser, and is a pain at times > to convert from designs to a working site. PHP benefits from being the same > in each browser, but must be tested from a server, so the development cycle > can take longer. Silverlight and other plugins are not as easy to use or as > flexible. This may change, but it is common for plugins to use an > architecture like Flex -- components and skinning. > > I think Flash has competition on the video front, as HTML5 threatens market > share and Silverlight offers robust DRM and streaming options, and it faces > competition on the interactive front with Unity3D. My hope is that Adobe will > be able to improve the performance of the player, in particular it's 3D and > graphics acceleration performance. It's a bum deal if we need to post system > requirements for accessing certain web content, but its the way things must > go. With OS X and Windows 7 both implementing 3D acceleration in the shell, I > hope that adequate 3D acceleration is becoming more ubiquitous. > > I don't mean to communicate that you were speaking against Flash in any way, > but I did feel compelled to describe several reasons why Flash is a major > player in the field, and why I don't believe a plug-in like Silverlight or > workflow like HTML/CSS/PHP/Javascript is going to unseat it. There are > advantages to every approach, but I laugh when people insist that Javascript > can do everything Flash can -- as if it were a full replacement. Not only is > the time investment from a design comp to a live product much faster for most > animated content, I wouldn't begin to consider Javascript as a replacement > for the projects I have which combine Flash video, Box2D physics and Away3D > rendering. > > The largest detractors for Flash development have been SEO and mobile > compatibility, but practically every mobile platform (except Apple) is about > to receive Flash 10.1, which means Away3D for the WebOS, Blackberry, Windows > Mobile, Android or Symbian user. > > We'll see. Anyway, Flash could stand to run faster, and C++ may be an > interesting source to draw from. I've seen Quake running in Alchemy, so it > may be cool if more features were ported over from legacy C++ or into > PixelBender extensions > > On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 07:26:25 -0800, delfeld <[email protected]> wrote: > > Rob, > > > Flash development works, and Away3D ends up being the best > > implementation for 3D in Flash at this point, since Papervision has > > suffered a programmer breakup. > > > I want to mention that all Adobe products will be sharing the same > > code by 2013 - at least, that was the goal. It may help to look to > > PS, AI, and Adobe PDF to see what functionality will be coming down > > the pipe. It might be best to design with an "optimize" flag, or > > "optimizeForFlash", and have separate classes/methods handling what > > happens during a Matrix call, how to create a Vector, etc. That would > > seem to be easier to maintain if/when Adobe shifts it's code again. > > > Also, Box2D started in the C++ world, and was ported to Flash AS3. It > > may be an idea to start looking at other programming languages. Apple > > has recently threatened Flash (again) with using HTML5, and Microsoft > > Silverlight is the mainstay of Netflix and other major businesses. It > > is conceivable that the Adobe world will be getting smaller in the > > future. And, fyi, Ton Roosendaal of Blender said that he refuses to > > use Adobe products . . . don't know why, didn't ask; but Blender is > > part of THE free-ware pipe, and it may be good to have conversation > > with him about possible collaboration and the future of interactive > > 3D. > > > later, > > N > > > On Feb 4, 7:27 pm, Rob Bateman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hey Ronen > > >> you're right in that Away3D 3.4 doesn't use a lot of Flash 10 only > >> features. > >> However, two of the biggest additions in Flash 10 was the perspective > >> correct texture mapping and shader calculations using pixel bender, of > >> which > >> 3.4 does attempt to take full advantage. > > >> Away3D Lite is almost a demonstration of the engine Away3D will become, but > >> as any programmer will know, it is a lot easier (and quicker) to write > >> something for a new player from scratch than it is to adapt what is already > >> there without breaking functionality! > > >> We have a lot of plans for the Flash 10 version of Away3D, so i wouldn't > >> expect the lack of Vector use or native Matrix3D methods to be the case for > >> much longer. > > >> atb > > >> Rob > > >> On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 10:54 PM, Michael Iv <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > But Vector data type is used , and Shader class in Dot3BitmapMaterialF10 > > >> > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Ronen Tsamir > >> > <[email protected]>wrote: > > >> >> Hi All > > >> >> I just now move from PV3D to Away3D, because the Player 10 version. > >> >> I download the [away3d_3_4_0.zip] > >> >> If I understand correctly this is the Player 10 version. but when I > >> >> look at the AS code, I cant find any use of the Vector3D, Matrix3D or > >> >> drawTriangles. > > >> >> so I don't sure if I work with the right Player 10 Version? > > >> >> Any Help..... > > >> > -- > >> > Michael Ivanov ,Programmer > >> > Neurotech Solutions Ltd. > >> > Flex|Flash |Air |Games|OS| > >> > Tel-0526237969 > >> > [email protected] > >> > [email protected] > > >> -- > >> Rob Bateman > >> Flash Development & Consultancy > > >> [email protected]
