alek
Nirmal Mukhi wrote:
[10:55] <nirmal> I propose the following: we promote RC4 to 2.0 right awayWe already agreed on IRC, but just to formalilse my vote, +1.
[10:55] <ant> hi
[10:55] <nirmal> we announce on axis-*, soap-*
[10:55] <nirmal> then on wsif-* when they come online
[10:55] <nirmal> Hi-Ho Ant
[10:55] <ant> owen's still trying to connect sorry...
[10:55] <hughesj> agreed promote RC4 to 2.0 ... we just need to slightly change the build.xml in the downloads so it doesn't have reference to RC4 ... don't you think?
[10:55] <nirmal> no problem, let';s wait
[10:56] <alek_s> i would wait few days
[10:56] <nirmal> I think so, yes
[10:56] <alek_s> no changes to release (maybe minor doc edits about JCA)
[10:56] <alek_s> but allow to take advangae of e (Link: http://ws.apache.org/wsif01 )http://ws.apache.org/wsif and new mailing lists that are WSIF alone
[10:56] <nirmal> Why would you prefer waiting Alek?
[10:57] <alek_s> i can check with Dims but new mailing lists should be working in few days
[10:57] <alek_s> and we shoudl have by then WSIF web site at pernament location
[10:57] <nirmal> IMO actually being affiliated with axis-user, axis-dev lets us reach ore people - so announcing now is more advantageous than waiting
[10:58] <nirmal> true, we can move to wsif* mailing lists and new web site in a few days but that is fairly independent of release
[10:58] <alek_s> we can still announce on axis-dev and axis-user (and other mailing lists)
[10:58] <nirmal> we can announce, pointing to xml.apache.org/axis/wsif, then we can make that point to new web site in a few days
[10:58] <alek_s> but we can point to pernament locations instead of asking people to look on xml.apache.org/axis
[10:59] <nirmal> yes, you're right about that
[10:59] <hughesj> the docs in the distribution are same look-and-feel as those in the current web site. I propose we put the 'forrested' web site up at ws.apache.org/wsif
[10:59] <alek_s> i think Owen wwas looking ot port current site to ws-site?
[10:59] <hughesj> yes, and changing to forest on the way
[10:59] <alek_s> Dims suggested that it should be as easy as adding files to new locaiton
[10:59] <nirmal> yes, I agree with Jeremy, we can make the new web site look nice
[11:00] <alek_s> i think *temporarily* we can have old docs [11:00] <nirmal> yes, but delaying the release for that seems unnecessary to me
[11:00] <hughesj> the content is the same
[11:00] <hughesj> pretty much
[11:00] <alek_s> and upgrade to new when we have them ready (and produce new 2.0.1 releease)
[11:00] <hughesj> good idea
[11:00] <nirmal> I agree with 2.0.1 with new docs, new web site, new mailing list - but 2.0 right away
[11:01] <ant> we don't need a 2.0.1 release to change the website do we?
[11:01] <nirmal> I just want it out as you can tell :-)
[11:01] <whitlock> hi
[11:01] <nirmal> No we don't need it, but we could have it
[11:01] <alek_s> i think we are missing opportunity to promote new pernament location for WSIF ...
[11:01] <nirmal> Hi Mark
[11:01] <alek_s> hi Mark
[11:02] <hughesj> I agree with Nirmal. 2.0 right away. Lets sort out 2.0.1 items after that
[11:02] <hughesj> we can always put a redirect in the xml.apache.org/axis/wsif site to the new one
[11:02] <nirmal> Yes I agree with the redirect
[11:02] <nirmal> One more Q: do we know for sure that website doesn't work already?
[11:02] <alek_s> that is harder for mailing lists ...
[11:03] <ant> I think it would be good to have the new website at ws.apache.org/wsif now so we can all see it
[11:03] <nirmal> i.e. can I add wsif to ws,apache.org right now and redirect to xml.apache.org/axis/wsif?
[11:03] <alek_s> i justr tried (Link: http://ws.apache.org/wsif)http://ws.apache.org/wsif
[11:03] <ant> just don't tell anyone yet
[11:03] <nirmal> Alek: yes, but I think it's ok if we have users posting to axis-user for some time
[11:03] <alek_s> it shoudl be in CVS module ws-site
[11:04] <ant> alek: owen hasn't put up the new site yet
[11:04] <hughesj> it refreshes every 6 hours
[11:04] <nirmal> I would like to do this: release WSIF, point to current web site, mailing lists
[11:05] <nirmal> When new forrested website is up, make a big announcement for new site, mailing lists with a lot of fanfare
[11:05] <alek_s> Dims offered us short -term solution
[11:05] <alek_s> Owen, [11:05] <alek_s> [11:05] <alek_s> Short-Term: Feel free to create a wsif directory under targets for the html/images in ws-site cvs [11:05] <alek_s> module. This will be pushed every 6 hours to web site. [11:05] <alek_s> [11:05] <alek_s> Long-Term: Finish conversion of the WSIF using forrest (any look & feel), send me the zip, i will [11:05] <alek_s> integrate into existing ws-site with new look & feel and generate everything from there. [11:05] <alek_s> [11:05] <alek_s> Do you want to do Short-Term? or just do Long-Term? or both? Let me know. [11:05] <alek_s> [11:05] <alek_s> Thanks, [11:05] <alek_s> dims
[11:05] <alek_s> why we shoul dnot do short-term right now?
[11:05] <ant> why not put the new site there now so we can all see it?
[11:06] <nirmal> if we are talking about having it up today I don't mind (just don't want to delay release)
[11:06] <ant> I think this is independant from release
[11:06] <hughesj> I agree, if the new site is almost ready then lets put it up now so we can all see but this need not delay the release (which I think we're all agreed on)
[11:06] <ant> we anounce it with the old site addr
[11:06] <hughesj> right
[11:06] *** owenb (~[EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined channel #wsif
[11:06] <nirmal> if we have new site up today (pointing to old site) we can announce with new site
[11:07] <hughesj> hello Owen
[11:07] <nirmal> then forrest it when we can
[11:07] <owenb> got in eventually :-)
[11:07] <nirmal> :-)
[11:07] <ant> the new site is forest
[11:08] <nirmal> ok, let me rephrase: if we have ws.apache.org/wsif up and redirected to current web site that is fine with me
[11:08] <ant> if we anounce with ws.apache.org/wsif its hard for you all to see the new site and make corrections
[11:08] <nirmal> that way when we anounce people know the URL (and don't have to be fed a new one 10 days from now)
[11:08] <ant> i'd prefer to anounce just the old site address
[11:08] <hughesj> Nirmal: that's a good idea, just put an http redirect on the new site to point to the old(current) one
[11:08] <hughesj> oh
[11:08] <ant> we don't having mailing list yet, lets wait till its all ready
[11:09] <hughesj> look ... it's not a big deal, announcing with the old one and going with what we've got. People will see we have changed our website
[11:09] <alek_s> i think that old site should be left with only redirect to new one
[11:09] <nirmal> ok, so Ant you are proposing that ws.apache.org/wsif be used as scratchpad until we have it final, then we anounce that site?
[11:09] <alek_s> and in (Link: http://ws.apache.org/wsif)http://ws.apache.org/wsif put rht we have now as suggested by Dims as short-term solution
[11:10] <alek_s> (that is easy just add files to ws-site/targets in CVS)
[11:10] <ant> just a sec...
[11:13] <alek_s> i think we can have betyter scratchpads than (Link: http://ws.apache.org/wsif)http://ws.apache.org/wsif ...
[11:14] <nirmal> Alek I think the feeling is that the new site, new mailing lists etc. is a change we can move to when we are fully ready
[11:14] <nirmal> If we tie the release to that it delays it
[11:15] <nirmal> So let's release with old site etc. and move to new forrested site, ne wmailing lists when things are setled
[11:15] <nirmal> That way we have two big announcements (more advertising)!
[11:16] <nirmal> Of course we can have redirects, email aliases etc. so that people can move to new addresses gradually
[11:16] <alek_s> Nirmal: maybe it is better but it may be also very confusing ...
[11:17] <nirmal> I think it's ok, Axis will move, so will xml rpc etc. etc.
[11:17] <nirmal> WSIF will be a part of that "big move"
[11:18] <ant> sounds good to me
[11:18] <hughesj> and me
[11:18] <alek_s> we could be just first on the block to move
[11:19] <owenb> seems like the quickest and best option for getting the release out today
[11:19] <nirmal> true, but even that'll take a few days - to get mailing list going etc.
[11:19] <ant> alek: we can still be 1st, but it doesn't have to be tied to the 2.0 release
[11:19] <nirmal> I agree with Ant
[11:20] <owenb> I'll place money that we'll be first by a long way
[11:20] <alek_s> actually to move site to new location takes few minutes
[11:20] <nirmal> yes, but we will still have old mailing lists
[11:20] <nirmal> IMO we change everything when we are completely ready
[11:22] <alek_s> ok
[11:22] <alek_s> so coul dwe do one more round of editing release notes?
[11:23] <alek_s> right now it is too big and contains too many details
[11:23] <nirmal> what would you like to put in?
[11:23] <alek_s> also: what exactly should go to email announcement?
[11:23] <nirmal> I thought first 3 paras of release notes = announcement
[11:23] <nirmal> rest of releae notes is changes.html verbatim
[11:24] <hughesj> I'm working on an announcement at the moment
[11:24] <hughesj> it's a combination of release notes and initial WSIF description page
[11:25] <nirmal> I would agree with anything as long as announcement has sufficient stuff to differentiate WSIF from Axis and imitators ;-)
[11:25] <hughesj> :-)
[11:26] <nirmal> ok, so Jeremy and Alek get together and work on release notes + announcement?
[11:26] <alek_s> Jeremy: so maybe edit what nirmal alredy has in release_notes_2_0.html ?
[11:27] <alek_s> it is in CVS in doc/ subdirectory
[11:28] <nirmal> yes, I think Jeremy + Alek can take that and slice/dice to come up with good release notes and an anouncement
[11:28] <hughesj> I'm doing it in the style of other announcements posted to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[11:28] <nirmal> sounds good
[11:28] <alek_s> i think that adding few workd on history of WSIF would be good
[11:28] <nirmal> I would support putting more content rather than less (since nobody knows about WSIF)
[11:29] <hughesj> Well things like 'put out a RC3' in the change history isn't necessary in the announce
[11:29] <hughesj> the announce needs to contain just enough information to get people interested enough to download it ... and nothing more
[11:29] <hughesj> IMHO
[11:29] <nirmal> yep, I wuld support not putting changes.html verbatim, but including list of major features
[11:30] <nirmal> since this is the first release
[11:30] <owenb> I agree
[11:30] <hughesj> since it's the first release, changes don't mean much
[11:30] <alek_s> right
[11:31] <alek_s> but lis list of features would be good
[11:31] <owenb> yes no change history but a list of main features instead
[11:31] <nirmal> yes
[11:31] <hughesj> the release notes are different to the announcement letter
[11:31] <nirmal> I would think that first part of release notes would be similar
[11:31] <hughesj> so those major features list should go in release_notes_2_0.html
[11:31] <hughesj> agreed
[11:32] <hughesj> I'll change the top of release_notes_2_0.html to sync up with the announcement, Alek would you like to change the bottom half of release notes to reflect major changes?
[11:32] <alek_s> this is first release so it is different from any other subsequent releases ...
[11:32] <nirmal> ok, so let me try to summarise: Jeremy+Alek work out new release notes.html, consisting of short intro + list of features; short intro is the main portion of the announcement
[11:33] <nirmal> yes, I think subsequent releases will include changes list
[11:33] <hughesj> cool
[11:33] <alek_s> Jeremy: i will do this
[11:34] <alek_s> in this releease we can have "Recent changes" to give overview of kind of work done recently on WSIF
[11:35] <nirmal> ok with me
[11:36] <nirmal> ok, IMO it's getting late in the UK, so let's wrap up?
[11:36] <nirmal> Tasks: Alek + Jeremy do release notes, announcement
[11:36] <alek_s> and we can lawyas point to detailed list of changes in chnages.html - it does nto have to be copied to release notes
[11:36] <ant> when do we expect to post it all?
[11:39] *** gcg ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) has joined channel #wsif
[11:40] <nirmal> Hello gcg, are you a WSIF user?
[11:40] *** gcg has left #wsif
[11:40] <nirmal> aargh, almost had an interested user ;-)
[11:40] <alek_s> Ant: i think we i work with Jeremy on verion in CVS and email when it is ready
[11:40] <nirmal> sounds good
[11:41] <alek_s> when wevwrybod likes it we can post it as announcement
[11:41] <nirmal> after that is done I can work on building/posting 2.0 with Alek and anybody from UK who;s around
[11:41] <alek_s> does it sound ok?
[11:41] <ant> ok, bt it shouldn;t be long should it?
[11:41] <nirmal> I think Jeremy has some release notes etc. ready right now, so Alek/Jeremy only need to iterate on that
[11:42] <nirmal> after that is committed we need to change build.xml (change tag from RC4 to 2_0) then build and post
[11:42] <nirmal> should take 1 hr or slightly longer total I think
[11:43] <hughesj> Alek, are you still there?
[11:43] <nirmal> so are we dont with this chat then?
[11:43] <nirmal> Alek? Hello?
[11:43] <hughesj> looks like you scared gcg off :-(
[11:44] <alek_s> yes
[11:44] <hughesj> Hi again
[11:44] <hughesj> I just sent you the announcement letter in an email
[11:45] <hughesj> actually, need to strip off the first two lines
[11:45] <nirmal> you=Alek?
[11:45] <nirmal> why don't you guys work on that offline - I'll modify build.xml
[11:45] <alek_s> got it
[11:45] <nirmal> or let's all just stay on while we work?
[11:45] <hughesj> ok
[11:46] <ant> ok
[11:46] <alek_s> so let end chat for now
[11:46] <ant> ok, bye for now then
[11:46] <owenb> bye
[11:47] *** Signoff: owenb (Read error: EOF from client)
[11:47] <hughesj> I know cross posting is generally bad, but I think [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] is the right set
[11:47] <ant> i agree
[11:47] <nirmal> I would add soap-user to the list
[11:47] <hughesj> good call
[11:48] <hughesj> don't want to get flamed though
[11:48] <alek_s> i thin we shoudl annoucne the same place that AXIS announcmemtns go ...
[11:48] <ant> axis went to lots of lists, so I think this should be ok
[11:48] <nirmal> nah, I think it is justified
[11:49] <alek_s> we are *Web Services* Invocation Framweork after all :-) [11:49] <ant> axis went to things like soapbuilders which isn't so relevent
[11:51] <nirmal> soap builders is borderline, but they are people interested in web services and a major release announcement is ok even for soap builders I think
[11:53] <alek_s> we want to reach as many people as we can
[11:55] <ant> ok, could you also email me the drafts as they go back a forth then?
[11:56] <alek_s> i have just modified release_2_0.html in doc/ to be consistent with email ANNouncement and will check it inot CVS in a momemnt
[12:04] <ant> have you checked it in yet?
[12:05] <alek_s> it is now in
--
"Mr. Pauli, we in the audience are all agreed that your theory is crazy. What divides us is whether it is crazy enough to be true." Niels H. D. Bohr
