RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Birth Records From 1700's

[pico]

Hi Rick,

Sometimes the different name of the grandparents reflects the actual "evolution" of their names, by which I mean they can and do change over time. But your example of Maria de Jesus vs. Maria do Carmo or something like that is by far the most common variation.

What throws people the most, and rightly so, is when you find a different first name for the grandfather or grandmother. For example, the child's maternal grandfather gets listed as Antonio de Bettencourt da Silveira and his grandmother is Maria do Espirito Santo. So you continue your research by finding other siblings and find that there is now a conflict because they are now listed as Manuel de Bettencourt and Maria do Espirito Santo. The only thing you can do is continue to find other siblings and see how the rest show these grandparents.

But the ultimate answer comes from the next primary source which is the marriage of this child's parents. There are rare cases when those have a mistake, but they can mostly be counted on as accurate. They can and often are accurate but incomplete. For instance, when you find the the marriage, the mother's parents might say they are Manuel de Bettencourt and Maria do Espirito Santo. But when you find her own baptism, perhaps the father will be listed as Manuel de Bettencourt da Silveira, his full name.

It reminds me of one more thing that is more a disservice to those with Pico and Faial ancestors who use the Minho databases (NEPS) when these name variations cause their names to become very long and inaccurate online.

For instance, we find someone listed as Jose Cardoso Monteiro one time when he baptized one of his children. Then we find one time his name was listed as Jose Cardoso de Abreu. Well, Minho's solution to this is to combine these names and come up with Jose Cardoso Monteiro de Abreu. But in my fictitious example, maybe he never once used such a name in the records.

Maybe I'm splitting hairs, but I like to be precise and don't appreciate errors in judgment when it affects how a person is placed on their family tree. My solution to this would be to call this person Jose Cardoso Monteiro ou (or) Jose Cardoso de Abreu. This tells me that he could be listed either way. It also happens to help me when I do a search for anyone named Cardoso de Abreu. He would not show on a search for "Cardoso Monteiro." I hope I'm being clear enough on this point. With my database so large, these little picky things can prevent me from finding the right person and I might think that I never ran across them before. It might not pose a problem when you only list your own direct ancestors and might only have 3 or 4 people with duplicate names. So maybe I'm the only one that would really care. It's just how I have to do it.

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Birth Records From 1700's
From: "Richard Francis Pimentel" <rfrancispimen...@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, May 06, 2013 12:45 pm
To: <azores@googlegroups.com>

Doug, you have a point about the names of grandparents should be considered as secondary sources on baptism records. I can think of the many times Maria da Conceicao, is on one record is Maria de Jesus on another and Maria de Sousa on yet another. The only thing I am sure about is her first name is Maria.

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Spring, TX

Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of p...@dholmes.com
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2013 1:32 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Birth Records From 1700's

 

Hi Judy,

 

I have never seen a baptism from the 1700s that says the grandparents in Azores records, with the exception of Piedade, Pico which I think has them to about 1775, but I haven't looked at those records in maybe 10 years and am not certain.

 

In Madeira, where I have done a ton of research for others in the past, even the marriages from about 1730 forward list the parents and grandparents. And I think there are some or many freguesias on the continent that also did this.

 

But I also found often these grandparents have some mistakes when you find and compare their names in the original records. They should be viewed as a secondary source, not primary except for the listing of the parents. This happened in all baptisms for all Azores villages when listing grandparents. They are often slightly wrong.

 

Doug da Rocha Holmes
Sacramento, California
Pico & Terceira Genealogist
916-550-1618

www.dholmes.com

 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Birth Records From 1700's
From: jt <judy...@charter.net>
Date: Mon, May 06, 2013 10:30 am
To: azores@googlegroups.com

I know that at least some of the birth records from the 1800's show the grandparents names.  Does anyone know if the ones from the 1700's do also?  I am mainly interested in this for Pico and Sao Jorge.  I tried looking at one of the records from the 1700's but it is so hard to read I decided to see if the info I want would be there before spending any more time on it.

 

Thx for any help.

 

Judy Thompson

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